Loyalty to KLM post COVID

Old May 13, 2020, 1:50 am
  #1  
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Loyalty to KLM post COVID

As we are slowly looking at restarting our family businesses around the globe, we are also looking at planning travel again. We are not really booking yet but looking on possibilities, dates and routes.

To sum it up. We as a family are in filmmaking, farming and tourism and without the flying we do not really make any money. We are financially in good shape and we have not yet had to lay off any staff. (...but if we get another 3 months with uncertainties it will start to become difficult).

Yesterday I had a chat with my sister and we have concluded that our blue heart is not that loyal anymore as we had some issues.

There are a few things we really do not like what is happening and what has happend concerning KL:

1. The whole situation with the 'role over' XPs for Platinums. That the plats with more then 300XPs in 2020 in their accounts basically are not appreciated. Not a direct issue which effects us but it dents your loyalty. It might be that some in our family not become plat for life as the 'lost' 2020 does have an effect into the future. In the end KL should have 'compensated all or no-one'. It is a bit all are equal but some are more equal then others. But.. first world problem. (I would use COVID as an airline as a good excuse to scrap as much as possible in ff programs)
2. Voucher situation. We had a family holiday booked to family which was cancelled. Fine.. Vouchers. Fine.
We have rescheduled this to a late autumn date as we want to have the whole family together once in a while as we have some 80 years and plus family members. How we deal with COVID restrictions we will see by then.. but the oldies want nothing more then seeing the family. But rescheduling with vouchers.... 1. it will cost us more. 2. We will not fly KLM (Air Europa and Air France) 3. If buying new flights at this moment I can book the flights I want. (and we originally where also booked on the KLM flights).
At the moment we sort of let it go. It is very complicated to plan a family visit with the family living on 3 continents with kids, schools etc. At the moment we are not using the vouchers for this visit but bought new tickets all together. Fingers crossed...
Nobody knows what Air Europa is at the moment and I can imagine that Air France staff will strike after this crisis. We have had another family visit turned into a chaos due to Air France staff and Air Traffic controllers and since then we are very very careful with Air France flights.

I can expect that many will comment on this as 1st world problem but why KLM can not rebook us to the flights we want is annoying especially if the routes flown originally are the ones we want again.

3. Prices.... we as a family always have paid premiums for KLM flights as we are ex AMS, UIO and JRO. At the moment we are seeing that prices for flights we are looking for are higher than normal from KL. While the competitors are setting out prices way lower than KL at the moment. So much difference that we might become star alliance.... members..

I am just curious how others are looking at the post covid relationship with KL at the moment.

I do hope all are save, health and financially able to sit it out.
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Last edited by Meneer Guggenheimer; May 13, 2020 at 1:59 am
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Old May 13, 2020, 2:04 am
  #2  
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Originally Posted by Meneer Guggenheimer
1. The whole situation with the 'role over' XPs for Platinums. That the plats with more then 300XPs in 2020 in their accounts basically are not appreciated. Not a direct issue which effects us but it dents your loyalty.
Not this again!

If it's not a "direct issue" that affects your family, why is this number 1 on your list of bugbears? I genuinely don't understand this.

KLM (and Air France) have basically stated that no-one will lose status between Feb 2020 and March 2021. Everything else operates as normal, and as it always did. (Bear in mind that the next steps that may be required for FB members won't be announced until later this year, or next).

Originally Posted by Meneer Guggenheimer
It might be that some in our family not become plat for life as the 'lost' 2020 does have an effect into the future. In the end KL should have 'compensated all or no-one'. It is a bit all are equal but some are more equal then others
I don't understand why anyone who is on track to be Plat for Life will lose a year of Platinum as a result of the announcements to date. The whole thrust of the announcements are that no-body can lose Platinum as a result of pandemic year 2020 - and therefore no-one will be knocked off their Plat for Life track as a result of the pandemic in 2020.

We do not yet know what measures may be announced in time for pandemic year 2021, but if it again becomes challenging for Platinums to maintain status, then there may be further steps taken (maybe not a second consecutive year of pausing of status downgrades; maybe just reduced thresholds).

That said, anyone who had 2020 "sewn up" anyway thanks to a build-up of rollover miles is, in fact, not at all detrimentally affected. They were never in danger of losing status and have every opportunity to continue earning after the pandemic.

But given that the comparative generosity of the new rollover scheme has led to such an outcry here, perhaps the solution to this problem then is to scrap the rollover completely, or roll it back to something like it was in the "old" Flying Blue - where you had to earn something approximating double the annual threshold as a Platinum to have any rollover!
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Old May 13, 2020, 2:14 am
  #3  
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The numbers are not in a particular order so there is no number 1 spot.

the whole discussion is about things which makes you rethink your relationship with a company. These 3 things sort of sum it up at the moment. Also I actually say it is not really an real issue but it does count. I do not understand your fury in you reply.

And let's say you plan your life and have roll over XPs as a woman and get 2 kids in the foreseeable future and could have used the roll over xps you otherwise 'made' or had. Like it or not there is an unfairness in it. Again not important.

Also it is an opinion so respect for that is appreciated. And I agree, I would strip the ff programs too... but that is not the point now.
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Old May 13, 2020, 2:14 am
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Originally Posted by Meneer Guggenheimer
as 1st world problem ... 'rollover' XPs for Platinums.
For this specific topic yes , for the other things you mentionned its 50/50

i guess you will be able to travel if you make changes in your standards,patterns,plans for this family meeting .

About your business , its even harder but thats the game , adapt or die . I wish you good luck

Originally Posted by Meneer Guggenheimer
why KLM can not rebook us to the flights we want..... I can expect that many will comment on this as 1st world problem but why KLM can not rebook us to the flights we want is annoying especially if the routes flown originally are the ones we want again.
can you give the whole context ??

Originally Posted by Meneer Guggenheimer
But rescheduling with vouchers.... 1. it will cost us more. 2. We will not fly KLM (Air Europa and Air France) 3. If buying new flights at this moment I can book the flights I want. (and we originally where also booked on the KLM flights).
Well you have to expect this , prices won't return to pre-covid19 level for a long time, so i dont know why you are surprised

Originally Posted by Meneer Guggenheimer
At the moment we sort of let it go. It is very complicated to plan a family visit with the family living on 3 continents with kids, schools etc. At the moment we are not using the vouchers for this visit but bought new tickets all together. Fingers crossed...
Now you know the problem of migrants , welcome in the club !!! Missing deaths , birthdays , births , weddings , and so on ...... So if your meetings are delayed by a few weeks/months , you probably should see how others deal with such issues

Originally Posted by Meneer Guggenheimer
Nobody knows what Air Europa is at the moment and I can imagine that Air France staff will strike after this crisis. We have had another family visit turned into a chaos due to Air France staff and Air Traffic controllers and since then we are very very careful with Air France flights.
Talking about loyalty to a company is non-sense nowadays, except if the product is super awesome that competitors can't offer similar or better but for airlines it is not the case . If it is not worth financially then choose another airline or then don't fly

And if you choose AF , its the same as your money will go to the same pockets = shareholders of AFKL group

If you claim miles and xp for your plat card , your "money" will go to the same pockets = shareholders of AFKL group

Originally Posted by Meneer Guggenheimer
3. Prices.... we as a family always have paid premiums for KLM flights as we are ex AMS, UIO and JRO. At the moment we are seeing that prices for flights we are looking for are higher than normal from KL. While the competitors are setting out prices way lower than KL at the moment. So much difference that we might become star alliance.... members..
This is a free market . Each competitor have their own problems or costs. As things are not stable you can expect various prices by various airlines , for various markets

i would suggest to be more flexible about airlines , dates , booking classes and airports , if not then you are tied up with your plans and have to assume the consequences of your choices

Originally Posted by Meneer Guggenheimer
I am just curious how others are looking at the post covid relationship with KL at the moment.

I do hope all are save, health and financially able to sit it out.
well in my case , it is specific as yours , as i have different life and needs . I travel for business, leisure and private reasons .
  1. Business = won't be affected much by prices as iam not paying , but by the decision of KLM to change schedules on the routes i have to fly
  2. Private = this part is tricky cause AF is the only airline allowing to me travel to some destinations where family lives under one booking
  3. Leisure = long time ago , i changed my tactics . As i decided to switch to the most convenient airline within skyteam for each new trip, and if KLM win then i fly with them . i am quite satisfied with other ST members , but if its not worth then i have no problems to fly with PS, W6 or LO
So now , like everybody, i am waiting to see how market will evolve , i have the luxury to be able to delay most of my plans to a near/distant future , or even cancel them . I had couple of cancelled flights , managed to get my money back from SU, still waiting for AZ , the rest i received vouchers (AF) but i am confident that prices won't fluctuate much on the routes i wanted to fly with them and chances that AF/KL will collapse are pretty low

Last edited by fifty_two; May 13, 2020 at 2:37 am
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Old May 13, 2020, 2:24 am
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Originally Posted by fifty_two
For this specific topic yes , for the other things you mentionned its 50/50

i guess you will be able to travel if you make changes in your standards,patterns,plans for this family meeting .

About your business , its even harder but thats the game , adapt or die . I wish you good luck

can you give the whole context ??
JRO-AMS-MEX-CUN offered JRO-NBO-CDG-CUN
AMS-MEX-CUN offered AMS-MAD-CUN

Rebooked ourselves so we fly on the same flights, vouchers we will use later
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Old May 13, 2020, 2:27 am
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I am surprised about the 'aggression' in replies. That is not how I meant it.

Perhaps it is better too close and delete this tread.
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Old May 13, 2020, 2:31 am
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Originally Posted by Meneer Guggenheimer
I am surprised about the 'aggression' in replies. That is not how I meant it.
You saw "fury" in mine.

Trust me - there was no fury in my response, and neither do I see aggression fifty_two's reply.

If you post your opinion here, on a public forum, you should also expect others to weigh in with theirs.

Just because the opinions differ, or certain opinions are challenged, it does not mean that there is "fury" or "aggression".

(But I genuinely believe that complaints about the XP rollovers don't need a second thread)
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Old May 13, 2020, 2:37 am
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Whatever. I am done with FlyerTalk, staying friendly is an issue here..
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Old May 13, 2020, 2:46 am
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Originally Posted by Meneer Guggenheimer
Whatever. I am done with FlyerTalk, staying friendly is an issue here..
we are friendly here as always , but it doesnt mean we need to agree or disagree about everything

I don't know if you remember last year when i warmed you about a blue biz link you posted in this forum , to discuss the content of an email you received from them

Thanks to that i was able to find a lot (and i really mean it) , private information about you , and this is not normal as you are not a public figure, so i reached you directly and joked about it

Do this on 4chan (its just an example) and trust me no one will tell you anything but for sure you will have nice surprises later

Going back to our topic , in my case i just want to make you realize something = loyalty to corporation will not payback , you are a customer , not an investor (and even investors have less remorse) . Market is unstable now so expect prices to go crazy in both ways , therefore a bit of flexibilty in your plans might help

Originally Posted by Meneer Guggenheimer
JRO-AMS-MEX-CUN offered JRO-NBO-CDG-CUN
AMS-MEX-CUN offered AMS-MAD-CUN
So if i understood correctly

these were the original routes you booked ( JRO-AMS-MEX-CUN and AMS-MEX-CUN)
KLM offered you these instead (JRO-NBO-CDG-CUN and AMS-MAD-CUN)

and you don't see the reason why KLM wasn't able to rebook you on the same routes ???
.
  • Tell me who was supposed to operate the AMS-MEX segments ?? 50% chances it will be aeromexico, cause if my memory is correct , before covid19 there were 3 or 4 flights daily between AMS-MEX , and 2 of them are with aeromexico, the rest was KLM with their boeing 747
  • About segments between MEX and CUN = 100% sure it is aeromexico

.
So it is possible that Aeromexico has some issues on their sides (price increase, flights cancelled , flights not available to partners) , then it is normal that KLM will try to rebook you on their flights first and then maybe on partners (like KQ) cause its easier and cheaper for them

Last edited by fifty_two; May 13, 2020 at 3:05 am
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Old May 13, 2020, 2:59 am
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If you see the two raised eyebrows at your bringing up XP problems as aggression, then perhaps you should reevaluate your attachment to them. It's almost as if you intelectually realized this is not a problem that can be solved now, or needs to be solved now, but emotionally you have a connection, and the dissonance is causing you to overreact. Anyway we simply do not know at this point what the actual solution will be. Maybe FB will give everyone free 150XP at the end. Maybe they figure a lower number of elites will not be detrimental. We do not know. At least they have taken steps to protect the immediate impact and nobody is getting downgraded, so you have some security. Want to switch to Star? Well, LH has not announced ANY steps at all, and it's not like they have rollover miles in any case. Or achievable lifetime status.

Second issue is unfortunate, but par for the course. You might think that some other airline would treat you better, but threads from people unhappy with their resolution are popping up left and right. That is not to say you shouldn't reconsider and for ex. go for price on individual trips over preffering AFKL+ST as much as practical - it's just to say that if you think you'd get better treatment if you were *A elites instead of FB Plat... you wouldn't.
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Old May 13, 2020, 5:35 am
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Meneer, very good post and like you, I was surprised at the replies you got.
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Old May 14, 2020, 8:44 am
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Originally Posted by fifty_two
So it is possible that Aeromexico has some issues on their sides (price increase, flights cancelled , flights not available to partners) , then it is normal that KLM will try to rebook you on their flights first and then maybe on partners (like KQ) cause its easier and cheaper for them
That seems correct. Right now, except Delta, most flights that operated by a codeshare partner and marketed by AF/KL, seem to become more significantly more expensive or completely not available.
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