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KLM to make face masks compulsory for all passengers from 11 May 2020

KLM to make face masks compulsory for all passengers from 11 May 2020

Old May 12, 20, 6:43 am
  #31  
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Originally Posted by the810 View Post
Most, but not all. There are some places that are trying to open for the summer season and actively promote tourism.
From what I've seen, most places "actively" promoting tourism (which is going much too far - I haven't seen any advertising for travel or vacations in the last 2 months) are realising that 2020 will be the year of the "staycation"; I really think that anyone who sees a plane journey as a necessary part of their summer holiday 2020 will be severely disappointed, or may have to factor in a period of self-isolation either at their destination, upon their return, or both.
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Old May 12, 20, 7:26 am
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
Shouldn't you have been doing that all along, anyway? (Your username suggests that you should know all about the cheapest available economy fares!)
It's not a reference to the well-known budget airline.
I fly Business Class on Long Haul.

And if your travel is discretionary, you really should be looking to stay at home now. Most governments are still recommending against all but essential travel.
Of course. I've barely left the house since the 'lockdown' started and I've no intention of travelling anywhere until government advice changes. I would have thought it obvious that I was referring to what happens after the restrictions are lifted and the advice is changed.
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Old May 12, 20, 7:47 am
  #33  
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Originally Posted by SouthWesterner View Post
I would have thought it obvious that I was referring to what happens after the restrictions are lifted and the advice is changed.
I think it very unlikely that those restrictions are lifted or government advice is changed prior to August 31, the current end-date of the KLM mask ruling - certainly not across all territories served by KLM.

As such, KLM's requirement to wear a mask is probably not the primary driver of your (or anyone else's) reluctance to travel as expressed in posts in this thread. If someone is compelled to travel for essential reasons then clearly it's not going to be something that will stop travel (albeit you may ask the person compelling you to travel to book you on a different airline without a mask requirement - should there be any airlines that allow such travel by that time!). If your travel is discretionary, and you are happy to put up with the entry restrictions, self-isolation requirements, lack of facilities at your destination, higher hotel/accommodation prices (if not staying with friends), restrictions on activities allowed at your destination - then I don't think that the requirement to cover your face with some cotton is the straw that broke the camel's back, and that KLM's mask requirement is the one thing preventing you from travel.

While it is also clear that each territory and state will adjust measures at different tempos (just look at the fracturing of the response across the nations of the UK), and that there will therefore be no definitive "end date" when there is no longer any regulatory/public health/other reason for KLM to cling to a mask rule, I also expect that a majority of customers will continue to wear masks regardless beyond any such point.
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Old May 12, 20, 9:13 am
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
From what I've seen, most places "actively" promoting tourism (which is going much too far - I haven't seen any advertising for travel or vacations in the last 2 months) are realising that 2020 will be the year of the "staycation"; I really think that anyone who sees a plane journey as a necessary part of their summer holiday 2020 will be severely disappointed, or may have to factor in a period of self-isolation either at their destination, upon their return, or both.
Greece is opening hotels (and islands) from 1st of June and they already introduced new set of rules for visitors. Croatia plans to do the same, Austria is also pushing to open borders for tourists from neighbouring countries. Of course we all know tourism will be down this year, but that doesn't change anything about the fact that there are countries that will welcome tourists and do what they can to attract them. That makes non-essential travel an option for this year.

Airlines also plan to ramp up schedules over the next couple of weeks / months and I'm pretty sure it's not because they expect essential travel demand to go up. In any case, I don't think this gimmick is gonna convince many people to travel. But making flying misserable and inducing even more fear into society will certainly not help demand to grow.
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Old May 12, 20, 9:44 am
  #35  
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Originally Posted by the810 View Post
Greece is opening hotels (and islands) from 1st of June and they already introduced new set of rules for visitors. Croatia plans to do the same, Austria is also pushing to open borders for tourists from neighbouring countries. Of course we all know tourism will be down this year, but that doesn't change anything about the fact that there are countries that will welcome tourists and do what they can to attract them. That makes non-essential travel an option for this year.
Indeed, and the Commission is expected tomorrow to unveil a plan in which travel between countries - or parts of some countries - with similar risk profiles is allowed. As such, the Greek islands may be rolling out the welcome mats this summer - but potentially only for citizens and residents of certain parts of the EU/EEA.
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Old May 12, 20, 1:23 pm
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Originally Posted by Rambol View Post
I am honestly quite surprised by all the negative reactions in this thread to this decision.

How many people here have actually flown while wearing a mask? I flew from Australia to Europe in March while wearing a mask and it wasn't too bad. The only (major) downside was that my ears started to hurt after about 8 hours of wearing the mask. I don't think lots of people are taking trips this long right now. And if they are, there are ways to prevent painfull ears.

One other argument against masks (at least in the Netherlands, made by the RIVM) is that people wearing masks will not keep their distance. The negative effect of not keeping distance would be bigger than the positive from wearing a mask (Source (Dutch)). However, when flying it is impossible to keep your distance anyway, so this argument doesn't make sense to me.

In my opinion the downsides of wearing masks are so small that they definitely outweigh the possible downsides. So unless anyone has some strong evidence that wearing a mask increases the risk of transmitting the virus, I applaud this move by KLM and ask myself why they did not do this earlier.
The British Medical Journal listed some reasons why mask wearing may be self-defeating (https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1435/rr-40). I tend to agree; there is no way I could wear a mask for an extended time, for many of the reasons listed in the link. Habits need to change (washing hands, covering mouth, actually taking cough medicine/cough drops--amazed how I see <60% of people in an airport bathroom wash their hands or even attempt to hide a cough); habits must change for there to be an improvement as opposed to just wearing a mask with questionable benefits outside of a clinical setting (see CDC/WHO recommendations).
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Old May 12, 20, 1:41 pm
  #37  
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Originally Posted by dmarge18 View Post
Habits need to change (washing hands, covering mouth, actually taking cough medicine/cough drops--amazed how I see <60% of people in an airport bathroom wash their hands or even attempt to hide a cough); habits must change for there to be an improvement as opposed to just wearing a mask with questionable benefits outside of a clinical setting (see CDC/WHO recommendations).
Another habit that will have to change, at least in the short term, is hopping on a plane for no good reason!
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Old May 12, 20, 2:00 pm
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
Another habit that will have to change, at least in the short term, is hopping on a plane for no good reason!
Also true. I'm itching to fly, but don't have anything scheduled til August. I'm hoping things lighten up by then or I'll have to move those as well. Certainly can't keep pushing work/family obligations (or our missions trip) forever, though.
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Old May 12, 20, 2:56 pm
  #39  
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To be honest, I don't think this will have a major effect on demand, positive or negative. Like it or lump it, masks are the flavour of the month at the moment and most - if not all - major carriers are going to fall into line on this.

People's attitudes will fall into a pretty standard bell curve. The ultra cautious at one end will not fly for months or years even if everyone were wearing hazmat suits.

The people around the more cautious quartile will feel better about flying, but most of these people would voluntarily wear the masks anyway and only very few would be stopped from flying by seeing the odd maskless passenger.

The majority in the middle will take the attitude that it may or may not do some good, but will be perfectly happy to wear a mask if it gets them travelling again.

Those around the more skeptic quartile will moan and grumble about it, but will ultimately put up with it as the price of travelling. The ultra libertarian end who will not put up with it are not going to be that many in number in the beginning.

Personally, I hate the masks and will simply not fly on any airline which mandates their use, even if that means confining my travels for a while to places I can drive my own car to (most of Europe, once borders open).

However I recognise that I belong to a recalcitrant minority and that the majority in the middle of the bell curve will simply accept it as just another hoop they have to jump through when flying.

Once some airlines inevitably break ranks with the mask rule further down the track, however, it will be interesting to see how the market votes with its feet. I can't really make a prediction on this one.
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Old May 12, 20, 3:47 pm
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I will not fly if I have to wear a mask, I see that the KLM website excludes asthma sufferers but how will the staff know who has it. If it means being shouted at until a letter from my doctor is read then they can forget it . Within the EU I can take a train or drive or poss fly LH if they can organize things better.
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Old May 12, 20, 4:58 pm
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Originally Posted by ninjalad View Post
Ior poss fly LH if they can organize things better.
Lufthansa made it mandatory to wear masks (or some form of cover for the nose and mouth) a week before AFKL (since Monday May 4): https://www.lufthansa.com/de/en/social-distancing
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Old May 12, 20, 5:00 pm
  #42  
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Originally Posted by ninjalad View Post
I will not fly if I have to wear a mask, I see that the KLM website excludes asthma sufferers but how will the staff know who has it. If it means being shouted at until a letter from my doctor is read then they can forget it . Within the EU I can take a train or drive or poss fly LH if they can organize things better.
Pretty much every major carrier is going to more or less in lockstep on this. Trains are probably going to be no different.

If you can't or won't wear a mask, you're pretty much limited to driving.
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Old May 14, 20, 1:42 pm
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Originally Posted by The_Bouncer View Post
To be honest, I don't think this will have a major effect on demand, positive or negative. Like it or lump it, masks are the flavour of the month at the moment and most - if not all - major carriers are going to fall into line on this.

People's attitudes will fall into a pretty standard bell curve. The ultra cautious at one end will not fly for months or years even if everyone were wearing hazmat suits.

The people around the more cautious quartile will feel better about flying, but most of these people would voluntarily wear the masks anyway and only very few would be stopped from flying by seeing the odd maskless passenger.

The majority in the middle will take the attitude that it may or may not do some good, but will be perfectly happy to wear a mask if it gets them travelling again.

Those around the more skeptic quartile will moan and grumble about it, but will ultimately put up with it as the price of travelling. The ultra libertarian end who will not put up with it are not going to be that many in number in the beginning.

Personally, I hate the masks and will simply not fly on any airline which mandates their use, even if that means confining my travels for a while to places I can drive my own car to (most of Europe, once borders open).

However I recognise that I belong to a recalcitrant minority and that the majority in the middle of the bell curve will simply accept it as just another hoop they have to jump through when flying.

Once some airlines inevitably break ranks with the mask rule further down the track, however, it will be interesting to see how the market votes with its feet. I can't really make a prediction on this one.
There is a certain feeling of safety seeing fellow passengers the masks on, so I think most pax will want to fly airlines where everyone is wearing them.

Personally I think as things settle down, masks might almost become like seat belts: used for takeoff and landing but you can take them off in flight as the HEPA air filters start to kick in.
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Old May 14, 20, 1:57 pm
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Originally Posted by HalconBCN View Post
There is a certain feeling of safety seeing fellow passengers the masks on, so I think most pax will want to fly airlines where everyone is wearing them.

Personally I think as things settle down, masks might almost become like seat belts: used for takeoff and landing but you can take them off in flight as the HEPA air filters start to kick in.
Masks are definitely flavour of the month at the moment and seem to be providing the more cautious with some sense of security. Personally I think it's probably pointless theatre, but I recognise I'm outnumbered and the masks are here to stay for a while.

I am interested to see, however, how long it lasts and which carriers will be the first to break ranks (and how that affects their trade).
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Old May 14, 20, 3:16 pm
  #45  
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
Another habit that will have to change, at least in the short term, is hopping on a plane for no good reason!
Boy, am I ever glad that you don't get to decide what will have to change, nor what is or is not a good reason.

You want to imprison yourself at home? By all means, be my guest. Wear a face mask when you venture out? Go for it! Wear gloves when shopping? No objection. Refrain from flying until at least 80% of the world's population has been vaccinated in two or three years time? Sure, why not?

In the meantime, I reserve the right to hop on a plane as soon as I have a reason to, and I can think of lots of those. Apart from the lack of flights, the only thing that currently holds me back is that so many countries have promoted their citizens to inmates, have shut their economies down, and have made travel difficult in any number of ways. Right now I'm better of enjoying my freedom at home in a country where life goes on pretty much as normal.

By the way, Insideflyer has published an article in Dutch on the pointlessness of masks on planes.

Johan
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