FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   KLM Flying Dutchman (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/klm-flying-dutchman-493/)
-   -   KLM Cancelled Flights, Rebooked Return Flight That Can't Be Taken (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/klm-flying-dutchman/2016745-klm-cancelled-flights-rebooked-return-flight-cant-taken.html)

Grim Reaper Apr 29, 2020 10:26 am

KLM Cancelled Flights, Rebooked Return Flight That Can't Be Taken
 
Information needed and what should be done?

In January, 2020, my wife booked flights for us Toronto -> Amsterdam on April 22, 2020, and returning Amsterdam -> Toronto on May 27, 2020. KLM cancelled the booking for all flights at the end of March, 2020. My wife contacted her credit card company which, after considerable argument, reluctantly processed a chargeback to her credit card for all charges. Sometime after KLM cancelled all the flights it rebooked only the return flight, Amsterdam -> Toronto to May 28, 2020 which KLM did not notify either of us of, we discovered it when we logged into Flying Blue to retrieve information and we do not have the date when KLM rebooked the return flight. There is no way we can take the rebooked flight because we did not leave Toronto, we are still in Toronto. My wife does not want to contact KLM to cancel the rebooked flight because that would cause two problems: 1) A customer cancelled booking is non-refundable; 2) KLM will not provide a refund even if it cancels the flight, it will only provide a voucher. My wife does not want and will not accept any vouchers.

Information needed.
I recall that there was documentation available from KLM regarding their policy about cancelled flights that if any part of a return flight booking is cancelled by KLM then all flights are cancelled and a full refund will be provided by KLM for all flights.

What should be done?
My wife is very concerned that the chargeback for the return flight will be reversed because KLM rebooked that flight. What should she do?

fifty_two Apr 29, 2020 10:43 am


Originally Posted by Grim Reaper (Post 32334643)
My wife contacted her credit card company which, after considerable argument, reluctantly processed a chargeback to her credit card for all charges.

did you at least contacted KLM to ask for a refund ? cause KLM might argue that you had no right to request a chargeback directly

Grim Reaper Apr 29, 2020 10:48 am

Yes, a refund was requested many times through KLM on Facebook. There was an automated reply to each request, which stated that it had been assigned to an agent but after about two weeks of almost daily requests for assistance, KLM responded only with a boilerplate statement about requesting a refund in the form of a voucher.

"Hello and thank you for your patience. We are sorry for not being able to respond to you any sooner due to the large amount of messages we receive related to the coronavirus. If you are stranded abroad, you live in the Netherlands and have booked a ticket with us for a return journey on which KLM is no longer allowed to travel, we advise you to leave your details at:(URL removed because I am not allowed to post any until after I have 5 posts) for assistance with the booking of your repatriating flight by the government. If you have a different nationality, please contact your embassy for repatriating flights scheduled by your own government.

Do you have a flight booked with us and would like to know the current flight status? Please check your journey via My Trip (URL removed because I am not allowed to post any until after I have 5 posts). If your flight is cancelled, you can also rebook your flights there. For all other flights, you can check the flight status here: (URL removed because I am not allowed to post any until after I have 5 posts).

When you have booked a flight with us and you can or will no longer use your ticket, please request a voucher via the following link: (URL removed because I am not allowed to post any until after I have 5 posts). If you click on ‘Request a refund in the form of a Travel Voucher’ a new screen will open with ‘Travel Voucher’. Here you can fill in the details for a voucher request. When you have not received your voucher after 4 weeks, please contact us again so we can check the status of your request.

For further questions and answers related to the coronavirus, please visit: (URL removed because I am not allowed to post any until after I have 5 posts). For (online) travel agent bookings, please contact your travel agent directly. If your query has not been answered with this information, please let us know by replying to this message with your full name, booking code, ticket number and email address."

fifty_two Apr 29, 2020 11:40 am


Originally Posted by Grim Reaper (Post 32334701)
Yes, a refund was requested many times through KLM on Facebook.

ok thanks , but a mail would be better , in case they will contest the chargeback .


Originally Posted by Grim Reaper (Post 32334643)
My wife is very concerned that the chargeback for the return flight will be reversed because KLM rebooked that flight. What should she do?

also on which basis did you calculated the amount to be returned for a booking that was partially refunded ???? assuming you had your whole trip under single booking , if the entire journey was cancelled and refunded , ok fine , but flight prices are not 50/50

Grim Reaper Apr 29, 2020 12:32 pm


Originally Posted by fifty_two (Post 32334863)
ok thanks , but a mail would be better , in case they will contest the chargeback .



also on which basis did you calculated the amount to be returned for a booking that was partially refunded ???? assuming you had your whole trip under single booking , if the entire journey was cancelled and refunded , ok fine , but flight prices are not 50/50

The flights are one booking, the original charge for the booking was split into two by KLM, one for my wife’s tickets and one for my tickets. The chargeback by the credit card company was for both payments. As you stated, the original booking was for a complete return flight trip for both of us. The rebooked flight that KLM automatically made, which can’t be taken because we are not in the Netherlands, is fraudulent on the part of KLM. I have a copy of the requests for assistance and KLM’s responses saved to provide if the credit card company needs proof of the request for assistance. I also have a phone company call record of the KLM phone number that was called before the Facebook request for assistance was initiated.

fifty_two Apr 29, 2020 12:50 pm

ok thanks for confirmation but i have 2 more details to clarify
.
  1. what about the toronto-amsterdam in april 22nd ??? you took that flight or not ???
  2. did you make the chargeback for the complete amount you paid or not ??

Grim Reaper Apr 29, 2020 1:08 pm


Originally Posted by fifty_two (Post 32335084)
ok thanks for confirmation but i have 2 more details to clarify = what about the toronto-amsterdam in april 22nd ??? you took that flight ??? did you make the chargeback for the complete amount or not ??

We did not take the April 22 flight to Amsterdam from Toronto, KLM cancelled that flight and the return flight then rebooked only the return flight.
The chargeback was done for all charges, the complete amount although KLM split the charges into two, one charge for my wife's tickets and another charge for my tickets. The chargeback appears on her credit card statement as two positive balances registered as of the date of the original charges for the booking.

Fabo.sk Apr 29, 2020 1:12 pm


Originally Posted by Grim Reaper (Post 32335022)
The flights are one booking, the original charge for the booking was split into two by KLM, one for my wife’s tickets and one for my tickets. The chargeback by the credit card company was for both payments. As you stated, the original booking was for a complete return flight trip for both of us. The rebooked flight that KLM automatically made, which can’t be taken because we are not in the Netherlands, is fraudulent on the part of KLM. I have a copy of the requests for assistance and KLM’s responses saved to provide if the credit card company needs proof of the request for assistance. I also have a phone company call record of the KLM phone number that was called before the Facebook request for assistance was initiated.

Sooo... you actually have your money back? If so, what is your concern?

Grim Reaper Apr 29, 2020 1:54 pm


Originally Posted by Fabo.sk (Post 32335131)
Sooo... you actually have your money back? If so, what is your concern?


No, the money is not back, it is temporary credits that may be reversed if KLM rejects the chargeback. If KLM rejects the chargeback, the chargeback is reversed as of the date of the original charges and it appears as an outstanding balance that was due from that date but unpaid and interest is charged at 19.99%/year which would immediately levy that interest rate from the date of the original charges in January until the next payment date and the whole credit card's outstanding balance must be paid to avoid continuing interest being levied. If KLM successfully rejects the chargeback, my wife has one appeal available and the whole process may take approximately 100 days.

Here is one of the two chargeback emails my wife received with the personal information X'd out.

"Subject: Credit Card Number Ending in XXXX
Recently, you asked us about the transaction billed to your CIBC credit card account for $XXX.xx by KLM AIRLINE XXXXXXXXXXX, on XXXXXXX, 2020. We've begun our investigation.
Temporary credit given while investigating
Based on the information you have provided, we have applied a temporary credit of $XXX.xx to your account. You will see it on your next statement. In addition, we will also reverse any applicable interest charges related to the disputed amount.
What happens next?
Credit card disputes can take up to 100 days to resolve with the merchant's bank, and we appreciate your patience. If the merchant provides us with evidence that the transaction is valid, we will send you a copy of this documentation. We will then have to re-debit your credit card account for the amount of the transaction plus any applicable interest charges. This amount will appear as an amount owing on your next statement.
For more information
It is always a good idea to keep an eye on your credit card purchases. To learn more about what to do for a transaction that you do not believe is valid, or for information about disputed transactions, please visit our website at www.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
We're always here to help
Thank you for your patience while we investigate this matter for you..."

CosmicGirl Apr 29, 2020 2:40 pm

As I understand it the OP did receive a full "refund", albeit through a chargeback. However, KL have reinstated the inbound flight, after initially cancelling both the outbound and the inbound in late March. The OP is worried that KL will now charge them for the AMS-YYZ flight, even though they were unable to get to AMS because YYZ-AMS was cancelled. .
One important detail would be whether or not the reinstated AMS-YYZ was actually ticketed, or if it's simply a booking without a ticket attached to it.

fifty_two Apr 29, 2020 2:40 pm


Originally Posted by Grim Reaper (Post 32335122)
We did not take the April 22 flight to Amsterdam from Toronto, KLM cancelled that flight and the return flight then rebooked only the return flight.
The chargeback was done for all charges, the complete amount although KLM split the charges into two, one charge for my wife's tickets and another charge for my tickets. The chargeback appears on her credit card statement as two positive balances registered as of the date of the original charges for the booking.

ok so perfect , you got your money back , then ignore the updates about this booking and look after your bank account . If KLM takes action then your chargeback might be cancelled , otherwise you are ok now

CosmicGirl Apr 29, 2020 3:33 pm

The OP has contacted me via PM with a request to post the messages below, as it appears they are blocked from adding further replies within 24 hours with a new account.

"Subject: Credit Card Number Ending in XXXX
Recently, you asked us about the transaction billed to your CIBC credit card account for $XXX.xx by KLM AIRLINE XXXXXXXXXXX, on XXXXXXX, 2020. We've begun our investigation.
Temporary credit given while investigating
Based on the information you have provided, we have applied a temporary credit of $XXX.xx to your account. You will see it on your next statement. In addition, we will also reverse any applicable interest charges related to the disputed amount.
What happens next?
Credit card disputes can take up to 100 days to resolve with the merchant's bank, and we appreciate your patience. If the merchant provides us with evidence that the transaction is valid, we will send you a copy of this documentation. We will then have to re-debit your credit card account for the amount of the transaction plus any applicable interest charges. This amount will appear as an amount owing on your next statement.
For more information
It is always a good idea to keep an eye on your credit card purchases. To learn more about what to do for a transaction that you do not believe is valid, or for information about disputed transactions, please visit our website at www.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
We're always here to help
Thank you for your patience while we investigate this matter for you..."



In answer to your question, the rebooked return flight from AMS to YYZ was reticketed by KLM. My wife received our travel documents today from KLM by email.

My guess would be that the reinstated ticket was an automated process. I would keep trying to contact them to explain that you have received the chargeback and that the AMS-YYZ flight is of no use to you. With four weeks to go, hopefully a human being will see your message in time. That is the extent of the advice I can offer... Maybe someone else can pitch in on the odds of the chargeback getting reversed, as I have no experience with them.

smartytravel Apr 29, 2020 4:29 pm


Originally Posted by Grim Reaper (Post 32334643)
What should be done?
My wife is very concerned that the chargeback for the return flight will be reversed because KLM rebooked that flight. What should she do?

Did you ask for a chargeback AFTER the airline had cancelled the flight? Did you have one ticket for flight to AND from Europe?

irishguy28 May 2, 2020 4:05 am

To the OP:

That KLM "rebooked" you on a return sector when you hadn't even taken the outbound is a red herring. IGNORE IT. We are living in unprecedented times where over 99% of the schedule has been cancelled. Don't for a minute think that a human being somewhere in the AFKL empire looked at your ticket and decided you needed to have your return ticket converted into a one-way journey from AMS in this manner. The systems, which amend bookings in this manner during disruptions, were not built for this scenario and this is just one example of a machine doing the best it can under the circumstances. IGNORE IT. This is NOT your issue

Facebook is not an official channel. You should really not try to contact KLM with these kinds of queries in that manner in exceptional times like this. And yes, I know that it is difficult to get through to anyone right now, but you are not doing yourself any favours by going outside the official channels. Don't use Facebook/Twitter or anything similar in future - use the contact forms on the website. Take screen grabs and keep any automated acknowledgements of receipt.

Your issue is that you want your money back. Now that you have gone down the chargeback route, STICK WITH IT.

You seem to have got a little flustered and distracted. The only thing that you need to do now is to continue your chargeback route, offering the evidence that your outbound flight was cancelled to your credit card company should they ask for further evidence. At this stage, there is no point dealing with KLM any more, or attempting to contact them. Stick with your credit card company complaint.

And please come back at the end and let us know how this resolved.

Good luck!

irishguy28 May 2, 2020 4:15 am

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Grim Reaper (Post 32334643)

In January, 2020, my wife booked flights for us Toronto -> Amsterdam on April 22, 2020, and returning Amsterdam -> Toronto on May 27, 2020. KLM cancelled the booking for all flights at the end of March, 2020.

Your originally-booked flight, KL692 22APR2020 YYZ-AMS actually operated as planned and booked.

Are you absolutely sure you have a notice of cancellation from KLM showing that this flight was cancelled??? When the credit card company investigates and finds that the flight operated as planned, you may encounter severe pushback from the credit card company.

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flig...300Z/CYYZ/EHAM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 7:25 pm.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.