KLM refund

Old Apr 24, 2020, 3:07 pm
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Originally Posted by Georgeb71
This CEO is 49 years old and I guess that he really needs MY money.
What if he had been 51? Or 37? Would it have made any difference?

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Old Apr 24, 2020, 11:36 pm
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525K for being Boss at KLM is not really a high figure for such a company. And he is doing a really good job. So a bonuses are something he should get. But in 2020 or 2021 they should not be 'paid' due to the financial situation. At least not until all the refunds to flyer talkers have been paid.
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Old Apr 27, 2020, 6:02 am
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No, the problem is that I’m on a pension, (old man), and it’s not easy to replace the money that was spent. Whereas a 49 year old still has a few more good years to replace any loss.
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Old Apr 28, 2020, 2:14 pm
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I haven’t been able to find the parliamentary letter yet, but NRC are reporting in their live blog that the responsible minister is doubling down on her policy of sparing KLM even though EU law requires the airlines to refund the money and her department to pursue non-compliant airlines:

Wie voor een geannuleerde vlucht direct zijn geld terug wil, moet aankloppen bij de rechter. Dat impliceert minister van Cora van Nieuwenhuizen (Infrastructuur, VVD) dinsdagavond in een brief aan de Tweede Kamer. Ze schrijft niet van plan te zijn „handhavend” op te treden tegen luchtvaartmaatschappijen die in ruil voor geschrapte vluchten 'coronavouchers' uitreiken.

Passagiers behouden met zo'n waardebon het recht op terugbetaling van hun ticket, maar kunnen daar wel pas na een jaar gebruik van maken. Wie de voucher niet binnen het jaar gebruikt, krijgt alsnog het geld terug. Passagiers moeten daar door de luchtvaartmaatschappijen op gewezen worden.

Eigenlijk hebben reizigers in geval van annulering recht op een omboeking of terugstorting van het ticketbedrag, zo is vastgelegd in een Europese Verordening. Dat is nu niet haalbaar, meent Van Nieuwenhuizen, omdat er nauwelijks vluchten zijn en de luchtvaartmaatschappijen onvoldoende geld in kas hebben. Als er „honderdduizenden” tickets moeten worden terugbetaald, vergroot dat volgens de bewindsvrouw het risico op een faillissement.
In a nutshell:
The minister implies that you’ll only be able to get your money back via a judge because she’s not planning to actually act on her department’s responsibility to pursue airlines. Even though passengers have the right to a refund, she says it’s not achievable at the moment because there are barely any flights (huh?, what does that have to do with refunds?) and airlines have insufficient cash. If hundreds of thousands of tickets have to be refunded, it increases the chance of bankruptcy”

So basically KLM is insolvent, at least according to the minister. I hope she gets a good whipping of her rear when she speaks to the EU commissioner soon.

Edit: Here it is, in full - the minister openly admits that she wants passengers to accept vouchers, even though this bears the risk of bankruptcy and resulting loss of value. She’s totally out of her mind in my book: https://www.tweedekamer.nl/downloads...0Covid-19.docx
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Last edited by mfkne; Apr 28, 2020 at 2:47 pm
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Old Apr 28, 2020, 3:49 pm
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Originally Posted by mfkne
If hundreds of thousands of tickets have to be refunded, it increases the chance of bankruptcy
This sounds like a horribly mis-managed airline/budget. This is not any passenger's fault. This is airline's fault.

Don't get me wrong, I loved KLM and have flown with them on multiple occasions. I encouraged my entire family to move to KLM, and we all did.

However, I am developing reservations as KLM has ignored my request for refund for the past 1.5 months. I am completely ghosted. Filed a USDOT complaint and a CC chargeback.
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Old Apr 29, 2020, 7:33 am
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Slightly different, but I filed a refund for three economy comfort seats we had to book again since our flight changed. This was seven weeks ago. Still haven't heard anything, nor got my money back. It's taking an absurd time if you'd ask me..
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Old Apr 29, 2020, 8:33 am
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I put in for a 24 hour refund on april 10, about 40 minutes after a reservation was made. The reason was that KLM, even though they promised "flexible booking" and "free changes to new tickets" on their website (in one of the main banners), when the confirmation came in, it listed the tickets as non-changeable. So I called them and they confirmed that that policy did not apply to my reservation, but only for tickets with a flight date prior to July, even though their website showed a blanket statement about all new tickets.

Anyway, as Delta did actually offer real free changes for new tickets, I used my 24 hour cancellation rights (these where tickets to the US) and rebooked the same itinerary with Delta. That was about $50 per person more, but with penalty-free changes clearly stated within the fare rules. My cancellation request with KL was immediately confirmed by e-mail and that was it. When I called in today, they stated that refunds were not guaranteed and it could take 4 months for them to make a decision.

That is unacceptable and clearly goes against DOT regulations. A cancellation under the 24-hour cancellation rule should be guaranteed and KLM states that credit card refunds will be processed within 7 working days. Those have long since passed and I'm waiting for about $3000.

I have submitted a DOT complaint and contacted Amex to start a dispute.

My trust in KLM has gone to 0 in an instant here. This is not how you treat your loyal customers.
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Old Apr 29, 2020, 9:55 am
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Note: the Netherlands is one of 12 EU member states lobbying Brussels to suspend the "cash refund" part of 261/2004

Originally Posted by Euronews
A dozen EU states will today call on Brussels to temporarily suspend a European law granting refunds for cancelled flights, Euronews understands.

France and the Netherlands will spearhead the push, which is expected to come during a meeting of European transport ministers.
The 12 countries are: Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Czechia, Greece, France, Ireland, Latvia, Malta, The Netherlands, Poland and Portugal.

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Old Apr 29, 2020, 10:28 am
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So here these airlines ( and their governments) first change the rules, then they ask the EU Commission to change the rules. I’m sorry, but this is not how things should be done.
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Old Apr 30, 2020, 5:48 am
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What is forgotten here -> The European Parliament must ratify a temporary suspension of certain air passenger rights (EC261/2004). That is highly unlikely to happen. Moreover, the question, whether such a change will apply to cases in the last, is eventually going to be brought forward to the European Court of Justice. This may well end up in a big mess.

Moreover, what the Dutch Government says and wants is largely irrelevant. A Dutch court (if a lawsuit is brought up against KLM) has to follow the law. The law is EC261/2004.
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Old Apr 30, 2020, 9:06 pm
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Dispute the charges with your credit card company. No one on this website can help you unless you just want them to vent with you.
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Old May 3, 2020, 9:16 am
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Successful (?) Refund for cancelled flight

While when/if I receive the refund is still an open question, I wanted to share my experience with getting around the KLM voucher process for flights cancelled due to COVID-19.

I was notified by KLM that my June roundtrip from JFK to AMS were cancelled. I dutifully filled out the form on their website, and noted in the "remarks" that I wanted a refund, not a voucher. That didn't do much good...I got their standard email explaining the voucher process. After a couple of weeks, I contacted them again, and got a form response. Yesterday, I went to their Facebook Messenger, and explained that I did not want a voucher. They responded with a boilerplate response of how they felt the voucher process was an acceptable compromise. I replied that it was contrary to USDOT rules, and that I would be filing a complaint (which I did).

A few hours later, KLM contacted me again via Messenger, and directed me to a KLM complaint form. When I went to that link, it wouldn't allow me to make a complaint, since the PNR had already been cancelled and submitted for vouchering, so it wouldn't accept it. I pinged them back and told them the link wouldn't work.

4 hours later, they replied, apologized, said they had cancelled my voucher, and gave me a new link to apply for a direct refund. The link worked, although I had to put in separate requests for the comfort seating and extra baggage fees. I've received acknowledgement that the refund is in process. Now, how long it will take, and whether I'll actually get it is another question, but it looks like if you are persistent, they actually do have flexibility, though they will try as hard as they can to get you to give up.

Good luck, everyone.
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Old May 3, 2020, 11:25 am
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Originally Posted by JMF1959
I've received acknowledgement that the refund is in process. Now, how long it will take, and whether I'll actually get it is another question, but it looks like if you are persistent, they actually do have flexibility, though they will try as hard as they can to get you to give up.

Good luck, everyone.
I got my refund from KLM via delta.com since I purchased two tickets for a trip in mid-May through them.
Last Thursday I was told that a refund will be processed within 30-45 days and I was surprised to see the amount of the refund has. been credited to my CC this morning.
Correct that one has to be persistent . Instead of filling the form on the KLM website ( KLM informed me that my trip was cancelled on April 9th after the temporary restriction to the EU was issued on April 8th) . It took a lot of back and forth via emails with kana @Delta.com ( including sending them the EC guidelines of March 18th) but finally they decided to proceed with the refund .
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Old May 15, 2020, 1:19 pm
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Klm is now offering 15% more value for vouchers.
Which can be redeemed after 12 months.
Will klm pay out the 100% amount or 115% amount after 12 months?
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Old May 15, 2020, 1:29 pm
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Originally Posted by diamantaire
Will klm pay out the 100% amount or 115% amount after 12 months?
You only get the 15% extra if you use the voucher.

In the past, KLM have often offered "extra" on vouchers, in order to "keep" the money.

They will never give you a mark-up on a voucher which turns out to be refundable. If you have a refundable voucher, it will only be for the 100% you originally paid.

If you end up with a 115% voucher, then you can rest assured it cannot be converted to cash, and can only be spent on AFKL/DL/VS/KQ.

Flying Blue may claim to be "generous by nature", but KLM will not start refunding you more money than you originally paid for your ticket. They have a national stereotype to uphold ;-)
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