Oct 4, 2022, 1:44 am
Last edit by: b12e
Status as of 23 APR 24:
B787-10 Aircraft confirmed having PE seats installed:
B787-9 aircraft confirmed having PE seats installed:
B777-300 aircraft confirmed having new business class and PE seats installed:
B777-200 aircraft confirmed having new business class and PE seats installed (out of 15 total):
B787-10 Aircraft confirmed having PE seats installed:
- All B78X should now have the new PE seats
- Completed: PH-BKA, PH-BKC, PH-BKD, PH-BKF, PH-BKG, PH-BKH, PH-BKI, PH-BKK, PH-BKL, PH-BLM
- Seat map for the 787-10 including the new PE cabin: https://www.aerolopa.com/kl-781-3cl
B787-9 aircraft confirmed having PE seats installed:
- All B789 should now have the new PE seats
- Completed: PH-BHA, PH-BHC, PH-BHD, PH-BHE, PH-BHF, PH-BHG, PH-BHH, PH-BHI, PH-BHL, PH-BHM, PH-BHN, PH-BHO, PH-BHP
- Seat map for the 787-9 including the new PE cabin: https://www.aerolopa.com/kl-789-3cl
B777-300 aircraft confirmed having new business class and PE seats installed:
- Converted: PH-BVA, PH-BVB, PH-BVC, PH-BVD, PH-BVF, PH-BVG, PH-BVI, PH-BVK, PH-BVN, PH-BVO, PH-BVP, PH-BVR, PH-BVS, PH-BVV, PH-BVW
- Seat map for the 777-300ER including the new WBC and PE cabins: https://www.aerolopa.com/kl-773-3cl
- PH-BVU
B777-200 aircraft confirmed having new business class and PE seats installed (out of 15 total):
- Converted: none yet
- Seat map for the retrofit B772 with 3 class configuration: https://www.aerolopa.com/kl-772-3cl
- PH-BQA
- PH-BQB
- PH-BQC
- PH-BQD
- PH-BQE
- PH-BQF
- PH-BQG
- PH-BQH - Currently under modification
- PH-BQI
- PH-BQK
- PH-BQL
- PH-BQM
- PH-BQN
- PH-BQO
- PH-BQP
KLM to introduce 'real' premium economy
May 27, 2022, 3:02 pm
#46
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Programs: Flying Blue (AF/KL)
Posts: 4,711
May 27, 2022, 10:43 pm
#49
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 757
I think it seems to be a great product. The seat looks more like the old WBC like it was in the MD-11 back in the day and all aspects of the cabin are upgraded compared to regular Y. I think they might have one of the best W products in the market with this set up. Now let’s see what the price is. I expect it to be at the same level as AF W. Let’s see.
May 27, 2022, 11:48 pm
#50
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 4,279
I think it seems to be a great product. The seat looks more like the old WBC like it was in the MD-11 back in the day and all aspects of the cabin are upgraded compared to regular Y. I think they might have one of the best W products in the market with this set up. Now let’s see what the price is. I expect it to be at the same level as AF W. Let’s see.
For other destinations, am curious how they are going to price them - as so far BA seems to be one of the one with some reasonably price (quite often) to pay up for this in-between cabin with their also rather reasonable seat and service.
Cheers!
May 28, 2022, 6:19 am
#52
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Mostly living in the basement
Programs: Newly minted free agent; MR LT(!)TE, HH SE, BA SECM, DL MM, UA PS, 2V Fanboi, CBP GE
Posts: 5,108
It will be interesting to see what model KLM takes for the W cabin. AF uses a smaller cabin of around 3 rows that is really just an extension of the main Y cabin. (Service is provided by the Y FAs, and is basically the Y service.) VS and DL have larger cabins (typically 6-7 rows) with dedicated FAs and dedicated W catering. Given the increased competition in the W market over the past few years, I would argue an AF style cabin will result in an uncompetitive product, even in comparison to the JV partners.
- AF: Smaller cabin, Y service getting upgrade to W catering apparently
- DL: Larger cabin, W service if they go back to pre-COVID standards, Y otherwise
- KL: Smaller cabin, W catering probably with Y service
- VS: Larger cabin, W service
May 28, 2022, 7:20 am
#53
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NUE
Programs: FB
Posts: 14
No Gin&Tonic on all my flights, except when they are super nice and bring it from C. But this times are over since the flights got more load "after" CoVid.
May 28, 2022, 10:27 am
#54
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
Johan
May 28, 2022, 1:17 pm
#55
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 4,279
Photos from the sneak preview
Hi all,
I was at the Dutch Open today and visited the exhibit of the new "Premium Comfort" seat - it's very similar to the one from Delta's Premium Select. Some small differences
- the armrest can be lowered (it contains the tray table)
- the location of the USB and electrical outlet is different
- serving (china) plasticware instead of real chinaware on Delta
- pillow, blanket and headphones are the same as WBC
The KLM crew working and promoting the new seat was very proud of the seat. I only could not find out if the design is by Marcel Wanders or not - as the crew did not know. However the design is mainly to reflect that you're experiencing the Dutch culture/concept.
I was told that the pricing would be 2x compared to Economy - which I hope baseline is the average Economy price.
Here's some photo from this intro during the Dutch open.
I was at the Dutch Open today and visited the exhibit of the new "Premium Comfort" seat - it's very similar to the one from Delta's Premium Select. Some small differences
- the armrest can be lowered (it contains the tray table)
- the location of the USB and electrical outlet is different
- serving (china) plasticware instead of real chinaware on Delta
- pillow, blanket and headphones are the same as WBC
The KLM crew working and promoting the new seat was very proud of the seat. I only could not find out if the design is by Marcel Wanders or not - as the crew did not know. However the design is mainly to reflect that you're experiencing the Dutch culture/concept.
I was told that the pricing would be 2x compared to Economy - which I hope baseline is the average Economy price.
Here's some photo from this intro during the Dutch open.
May 28, 2022, 2:10 pm
#56
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 511
Thank you for sharing those pictures.
The 2x economy fare makes sense (based on other airlines).
I’d be curious to see what OLCI upgrade prices will be from (i) “Economy” to “Premium Economy”, and (ii) from “Economy” to “Business”. How does the second option currently work in the case of AF? I hardly fly AF long-haul, I’m assuming it’s not possible during OLCI directly? Assuming you’d need to upgrade from Y to W, and then from W to C if there is availability via the reservations line or at the check-in desk, I might be wrong as I haven’t done this before.
The 2x economy fare makes sense (based on other airlines).
I’d be curious to see what OLCI upgrade prices will be from (i) “Economy” to “Premium Economy”, and (ii) from “Economy” to “Business”. How does the second option currently work in the case of AF? I hardly fly AF long-haul, I’m assuming it’s not possible during OLCI directly? Assuming you’d need to upgrade from Y to W, and then from W to C if there is availability via the reservations line or at the check-in desk, I might be wrong as I haven’t done this before.
May 28, 2022, 2:12 pm
#57
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 757
Thank you for sharing those pictures.
The 2x economy fare makes sense (based on other airlines).
I’d be curious to see what OLCI upgrade prices will be from (i) “Economy” to “Premium Economy”, and (ii) from “Economy” to “Business”. How does the second option currently work in the case of AF? I hardly fly AF long-haul, I’m assuming it’s not possible during OLCI directly? Assuming you’d need to upgrade from Y to W, and then from W to C if there is availability via the reservations line or at the check-in desk, I might be wrong as I haven’t done this before.
The 2x economy fare makes sense (based on other airlines).
I’d be curious to see what OLCI upgrade prices will be from (i) “Economy” to “Premium Economy”, and (ii) from “Economy” to “Business”. How does the second option currently work in the case of AF? I hardly fly AF long-haul, I’m assuming it’s not possible during OLCI directly? Assuming you’d need to upgrade from Y to W, and then from W to C if there is availability via the reservations line or at the check-in desk, I might be wrong as I haven’t done this before.
May 28, 2022, 2:19 pm
#58
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
Looks nice enough, but all I see in the pictures is lots of KLM blue, and that's Dutch culture twice removed at best.
What was hidden in that paper napkin, by the way? Wooden Greta cutlery? And what was on the menu?
Johan
May 28, 2022, 3:36 pm
#59
Moderator: Aegean Miles+Bonus
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: AMS / ATH
Programs: AFKL Plat, A3 Gold
Posts: 7,339
I'm curious for the pricing. It looks nice noice for PE, nothing crazy, but a step up from Economy Comfort. I'd probably see my company allowing booking these (current policy is Eco Comfort) if the price is right. Doubling the cost of the economy fare though (which some airlines seem to be doing for PE) probably won’t fly though (quite literally).
May 29, 2022, 12:11 am
#60
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Programs: Flying Blue (AF/KL)
Posts: 4,711
B78X - Seat map adjusted to JFK
From what I can see pulling up a flight to JFK for late July, EC starts at row 17 (compared to row 10 now).
It’s a pity you can’t find the KL seat map online anymore (on their website).
It’s a pity you can’t find the KL seat map online anymore (on their website).