Just trying to figure out how this works in US

Old Feb 13, 19, 10:42 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 23
Talking Just trying to figure out how this works in US

Hi all! We are Americans living in Norway and fly a lot. We've had 4 times in the last year that we were compensated for flights that arrived late. It works like a charm and we know all the rules. One of the rules is if your flight is delayed due to weather then you can't be compensated. Our problem has already been resolved, I'm just trying to understand how it works in the US.

My husband was scheduled to fly ATL to AMS today (Thursday) at 22:25. Tuesday morning he received a message that his flight was canceled and they needed to rebook. He was on his way to a conference and asked me to take care of it for him. I called and they said they could switch him to the ATL to AMS flight leaving at 17:53 instead. I told them that was fine and asked why his flight was canceled in the first place. I was told (on Tuesday morning) that his flight on Thursday evening was canceled due to weather (which would have made it ineligible for compensation). I was very polite but asked how they would know on Tuesday morning that the 22:25 flight would be canceled because of weather but not the 17:53 flight? Atlanta was having weather in the 60's. No snow, no storm. What was going on? She agreed it made no sense but couldn't help.

My understanding of the rule is if we are not going to be more than 3 hours late we wouldn't be eligible anyway and that is fine. Then - late last night he was told that the 17:53 flight was oversold and they wanted to reroute him through DTW to AMS. This was also fine. Instead of arriving back in Norway at 16:30, he's now arriving at 9:30 the same day. And he was given a $400 voucher on Delta.

As I said, I'm not looking for more compensation. As far as we're concerned, this worked out great. I guess I'm just wondering if the US tries harder to not have to pay the compensation if they didn't have to. And I'm currently sitting on my couch in Norway so maybe there is a huge storm in Virginia that's going to hit between 17:53 and 22:25 tonight.

Thanks!
sunshine61250 is offline  
Old Feb 14, 19, 1:30 am
  #2  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 11,558
KL has been short of longhaul aircraft for a while, which has cause plenty of cancelations. The fact that two of their planes collided on the apron at AMS yesterday has only made matters worse.

I suspect that ATL may well be one of the destinations most prone to cancelations.

Johan
johan rebel is offline  
Old Feb 14, 19, 1:40 am
  #3  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 23
My first thought was maybe it was because of the two planes, but that happened on Wednesday and his flight was canceled "due to weather" on Tuesday. We fly KLM quite a bit from AMS to ATL and have never had a cancellation before. Thanks for responding!!
sunshine61250 is offline  
Old Feb 14, 19, 3:47 am
  #4  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 11,558
Originally Posted by sunshine61250 View Post
My first thought was maybe it was because of the two planes
One of those planes was KL621 with destination ATL.

Yesterday's KL623 to ATL was canceled too, as are both flights today.

According to Flightaware KL 621 was canceled every single day for the past eleven days.

Sounds like an amazingly long spell of bad weather.

Originally Posted by sunshine61250 View Post
We fly KLM quite a bit from AMS to ATL and have never had a cancellation before
Count your blessings!

Johan
johan rebel is offline  
Old Feb 14, 19, 4:12 am
  #5  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by johan rebel View Post
One of those planes was KL621 with destination ATL.

Yesterday's KL623 to ATL was canceled too, as are both flights today.

According to Flightaware KL 621 was canceled every single day for the past eleven days.

Sounds like an amazingly long spell of bad weather.

Count your blessings!

Johan
ELEVEN DAYS?!! Holy Cow!

Thanks so much for the info!
sunshine61250 is offline  
Old Feb 14, 19, 4:24 am
  #6  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: GOT
Programs: KL Plat
Posts: 248
Flightradar24 shows KL621 as being cancelled everyday from the 24th Jan with the exception of the 25th Jan when it did fly last, so that's 21 days in the last 22 cancelled.

KLM have very accurate weather prediction it seems along with a very regular pattern of bad weather hmm...
Solevita is online now  
Old Feb 14, 19, 4:39 am
  #7  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: AMS / ATH
Programs: AFKL Gold, A3 Gold
Posts: 4,843
And keep in mind that even if you arrive at your destination on time, but you had to depart more than two (I think?) hours earlier than originally scheduled - you are due compensation. The compensation does not only apply if you arrive late, it also applies to departing early.
Xandrios is offline  
Old Feb 14, 19, 4:49 am
  #8  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: GOT
Programs: KL Plat
Posts: 248
If one was a gambler, you can still book KL621 for tomorrow.... There don't seem to be any other options to get AMS-ATL arriving no less than 2 hours later and departing no less than 1 hour before.
Solevita is online now  
Old Feb 14, 19, 5:52 am
  #9  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by Xandrios View Post
And keep in mind that even if you arrive at your destination on time, but you had to depart more than two (I think?) hours earlier than originally scheduled - you are due compensation. The compensation does not only apply if you arrive late, it also applies to departing early.
I didn't know that! Thanks!
sunshine61250 is offline  
Old Feb 14, 19, 6:07 am
  #10  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 42,831
First, it is for KL to prove an "extraordinary circumstance" such as weather. While the local weather in ATL or AMS is irrelevant as weather enroute matters just as much,if not more, routine cancellations of the same flight on multiple consecutive days make it hard for KL to prove. The sole determinant here is whether the departure time from ATL was, earlier than 20:25, e.g. 2 hours earlier than the originally-scheduled departure time of 22:25. If so and your husband arrived at his final ticketed destination which appears to be somewhere in Norway earlier than originally ticketed, he is due 50% of the standard EC 261/.2004 cancellation compensation. That would be EUR 600 for a Type 3 flight, this EUR 300 in cash (equivalent) for this change.

Your husband should file his claim with KL and stick to the relevant facts. Leave out all of the back-and-forth over the course of the day and focus on the originally scheduled departure and arrival times and the actual times,

Second, your husband accepted a voluntary settlement for denied boarding by DL. While a $400 voucher is extremely low and I would have insisted on at least $1,000, if that is what he chose to accept, that is what he has accepted. Bear in mind that had he been involuntarily denied boarding, he would have been due 400% of the value of the segment in question up to $1,350 and that amount would have been payable in cash. If your husband can make use of the DL voucher, it is at least something.
Often1 is offline  
Old Feb 14, 19, 8:09 am
  #11  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
First, it is for KL to prove an "extraordinary circumstance" such as weather. While the local weather in ATL or AMS is irrelevant as weather enroute matters just as much,if not more, routine cancellations of the same flight on multiple consecutive days make it hard for KL to prove. The sole determinant here is whether the departure time from ATL was, earlier than 20:25, e.g. 2 hours earlier than the originally-scheduled departure time of 22:25. If so and your husband arrived at his final ticketed destination which appears to be somewhere in Norway earlier than originally ticketed, he is due 50% of the standard EC 261/.2004 cancellation compensation. That would be EUR 600 for a Type 3 flight, this EUR 300 in cash (equivalent) for this change.

Your husband should file his claim with KL and stick to the relevant facts. Leave out all of the back-and-forth over the course of the day and focus on the originally scheduled departure and arrival times and the actual times,

Second, your husband accepted a voluntary settlement for denied boarding by DL. While a $400 voucher is extremely low and I would have insisted on at least $1,000, if that is what he chose to accept, that is what he has accepted. Bear in mind that had he been involuntarily denied boarding, he would have been due 400% of the value of the segment in question up to $1,350 and that amount would have been payable in cash. If your husband can make use of the DL voucher, it is at least something.
I've learned so much about this! Thank you! We will keep all this in mind if it happens again. For now, we'll be happy with the $400 and will use it in Dec when we fly from IL to FL for our anniversary cruise. We had thought, incorrectly as it turns out, that if you arrive earlier than expected you would receive nothing. We are still happy he's going to be coming home earlier and will take these lessons learned into anything that happens in the future. And maybe we need to start trying to book this flight since we would have a high probably of compensation.

Last edited by sunshine61250; Feb 14, 19 at 8:10 am Reason: spelling
sunshine61250 is offline  
Old Feb 14, 19, 8:30 am
  #12  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: The Netherlands
Programs: BA Bronze, Accor Gold, IHG Plat
Posts: 4,985
It's NOT weather related. The ATL route has seen cancellations since a couple of weeks due to technical issues. Delta is taking over the KL621/2 flight on similar timings with an A330-300 as DL8816/17.
Customers are usually notified 72 hours beforehand that their KL flight is cancelled and rebooked on DL.
KLflyerRalph is online now  
Old Feb 14, 19, 8:42 am
  #13  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: RTM/AMS & CUR
Programs: AA PLT
Posts: 2,035
Originally Posted by Solevita View Post
Flightradar24 shows KL621 as being cancelled everyday from the 24th Jan with the exception of the 25th Jan when it did fly last, so that's 21 days in the last 22 cancelled.

KLM have very accurate weather prediction it seems along with a very regular pattern of bad weather hmm...
KL621/622 cancellations are related to KLMís widebody shortage. DLís took them over as DL9922 and now DL8817.
Djokison is offline  
Old Feb 14, 19, 8:43 am
  #14  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: VPS
Programs: IHG Spire, Delta Silver
Posts: 3,872
Given the nature of how planes are scheduled and routed in order to minimize time on the ground that is not generating revenue- not many aircrafts are on the same out and back route all the time, 'weather' can actually have nothing to do with your scheduled arrival and departure points, but rather a specific plane that was supposed to be in Atlanta or Amsterdam by X time for that route is being held on the ground because of poor conditions in Cape Town or Nairobi or Sao Paulo.

Having said that, the consistent pattern of flight cancellations here is on the shady side, IMO.

Last edited by beachmouse; Feb 14, 19 at 8:50 am
beachmouse is offline  
Old Feb 14, 19, 11:49 am
  #15  
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 357
Originally Posted by beachmouse View Post
Having said that, the consistent pattern of flight cancellations here is on the shady side, IMO.
There is nothing shady about what is happening. If you read the thread, or did a little bit of research, you would see the cancellations are occurring due to KLM widebody shortages. Instead of telling passengers they're SOL and leave them stuck with crappy alternatives, they are leveraging their JV and rebooking them on an additional segment being operated by DL at similar times, which reduces the issues with connections and EU compensation (as long as they depart no more than one hour earlier than scheduled, and arrive no more than two hours later than scheduled, they are due no cancellation compensation).. Essentially it is just a glorified equipment swap going on, but instead of being between KLM equipment it is with a JV partner, but because it is an operating carrier change they need to "cancel" the original flight and rebook on the alternative. Passengers are also entitled to refund their ticket instead of flying if they so chose, or request different arrangements; but I'd assume most would prefer getting to their destination under arguably the exact same travel conditions.
Lux Flyer is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread