O Class upgrade availablity or not?

Old Feb 6, 19, 3:08 am
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O Class upgrade availablity or not?

Using expert flyer i can see that there is O class availablity on KL 452 AUH-AMS 2-April. i make the booking, Then call to upgrade, but they say there is no availablity to upgrade its sale tickets only.

How can you now tell if its possible to upgrade or not?
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Old Feb 6, 19, 5:55 am
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Originally Posted by highlander100 View Post
How can you now tell if its possible to upgrade or not?
Is it the only segment on your reservation? It is often the case that for awards (and thus for upgrades) the availability might be constrained by married segments. When you look for availability, put the whole itinerary. While I can see on expertflyer the availability of award O on KL452, that availability does not show up if I look for AUH-AMS-MIL flights (for example). I'm not sure that is the reason though.
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Old Feb 6, 19, 7:21 am
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Originally Posted by highlander100 View Post
How can you now tell if its possible to upgrade or not?
By checking in Flying Blue whether there is a business-class seat available for redemption at the lowest-possible price for the specific flight you are interested in.

If you are not offered a seat for outright redemption at the lowest-possible mileage price when doing a dummy Award booking, then there is no "O" award/upgrade space on the flight.
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Old Feb 6, 19, 7:51 am
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Shows its the lowest price on the website(+taxes). How would it be possible to know if its the lowest possible price
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Old Feb 6, 19, 8:03 am
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What is up with showing "La PremiŤre" awards on KL metal?
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Old Feb 6, 19, 8:42 am
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Originally Posted by highlander100 View Post
Shows its the lowest price on the website(+taxes). How would it be possible to know if its the lowest possible price
By using the "Miles Price Estimator" here.

(Though you would probably have noticed, if you ticked the box "You are looking for a flight around these dates" when doing that search, that cheaper miles prices were available on other surrounding dates, which also indicates that this is NOT the cheapest possible price for the route)
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Old Feb 6, 19, 11:12 am
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Man they donít make it easy. Thanks for the help.
No wondering why I bother with expert flyer.
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Old Feb 6, 19, 1:04 pm
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It's not answering your question, which irishguy28 did perfectly already but just to give extra info: general consensus is that upgrades (except maybe for special offers at check-in) are not usually the best or necessarily the cheapest way to sit in a higher cabin. Often a direct redemption or purchase to the cabin in which you want to end up in is either easier or even better value, all things taken in to consideration (miles earned, benefits, certainty etc).

Of course there can be a bunch of reasons why you would want to upgrade later on after purchasing economy, but it's something to bear in mind for the future
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Old Feb 7, 19, 3:27 am
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Originally Posted by sbams View Post
Of course there can be a bunch of reasons why you would want to upgrade later on after purchasing economy, but it's something to bear in mind for the future
Upgrades can be great if you travel a lot on someone else's expense but you are always booked in economy - the more you travel on such tickets, the greater the chances that, eventually, one of these flights will "co-incide" with available O space allowing you to upgrade.

However, if you are fully in control of booking, then blindly buying any Economy ticket, and then later hoping to upgrade, is a terrible strategy. Once you have selected your flight, you are stuck with that flight - which is already severely limiting your "options" which you need to keep as wide as possible when you are trying to do something like upgrade with miles. People that end up posting here seem to think that they can buy any economy ticket they like, and then upgrade. But as you are seeing, you really need to do your research FIRST. If you buy your economy ticket without even checking/considering whether it can be upgraded before committing to the purchase, then you have already given up all your potential to be flexible as regards choosing a flight which turns out to be upgradable. Far better to use your miles to redeem an award business class seat outright rather than go through the intermediate step of buying an economy ticket and then upgrading.

Or, at the very least, try to find a flight for which you will buy an economy ticket and which is currently available for upgrades, and upgrade it immediately. If the cheap "O" rate is already gone at the time you buy, it is very, very unlikely to become available again at any future date (and, even if it did, would you be "lucky" enough to check at the right time to notice that it did???)
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Old Feb 7, 19, 3:57 pm
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
Upgrades can be great if you travel a lot on someone else's expense but you are always booked in economy - the more you travel on such tickets, the greater the chances that, eventually, one of these flights will "co-incide" with available O space allowing you to upgrade.

However, if you are fully in control of booking, then blindly buying any Economy ticket, and then later hoping to upgrade, is a terrible strategy. Once you have selected your flight, you are stuck with that flight - which is already severely limiting your "options" which you need to keep as wide as possible when you are trying to do something like upgrade with miles. People that end up posting here seem to think that they can buy any economy ticket they like, and then upgrade. But as you are seeing, you really need to do your research FIRST. If you buy your economy ticket without even checking/considering whether it can be upgraded before committing to the purchase, then you have already given up all your potential to be flexible as regards choosing a flight which turns out to be upgradable. Far better to use your miles to redeem an award business class seat outright rather than go through the intermediate step of buying an economy ticket and then upgrading.

Or, at the very least, try to find a flight for which you will buy an economy ticket and which is currently available for upgrades, and upgrade it immediately. If the cheap "O" rate is already gone at the time you buy, it is very, very unlikely to become available again at any future date (and, even if it did, would you be "lucky" enough to check at the right time to notice that it did???)
Whilst i understand what you mean regards best value, 90% of my travel is on business and I unfortunately am constrained to Y by my travel policy. I try and do my homework when booking, but whats caught me off guard in this case is that no longer does o-class mean upgrade availability. it appears that o class can no include 2 separate fare buckets, one for cash and one for miles. As posters have kindly advised, there are ways round it, but needs a bit more leg work and expert flyer isn't the best place for that now.
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Old Feb 8, 19, 1:13 am
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Originally Posted by highlander100 View Post
Using expert flyer i can see that there is O class availablity on KL 452 AUH-AMS 2-April. i make the booking, Then call to upgrade, but they say there is no availablity to upgrade its sale tickets only.

How can you now tell if its possible to upgrade or not?
There seems to be a recurring issue with ExpertFlyer and FB, leading to discrepancies between what EF shows and the real availability, specially since the dynamic award scheme is in place. At least one cause of the issue is the married segment logic also applying to awards and that EF cannot handle properly.
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Old Feb 8, 19, 2:18 am
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
By checking in Flying Blue whether there is a business-class seat available for redemption at the lowest-possible price for the specific flight you are interested in.

If you are not offered a seat for outright redemption at the lowest-possible mileage price when doing a dummy Award booking, then there is no "O" award/upgrade space on the flight.
Although that's what I believed up until now, I have a counter experience from no later than yesterday: I inquired the Platinum Line about the upgrade availability on a PEK-CDG-ZRH flight on which the married flights showed up at 90.000 miles in Award Business which is the lowest price on that route. However the agent told me she could see no upgrade availability on that day.

Sorry to make things even more complicated, but it seems that the only way to know for sure is to call the PSL or Flying Blue if you are not Platinum (PSL agents can handle Flying Blue awards and upgrades while regular Elite service agents cannot), and to ask on a case by case basis.

Originally Posted by bodory
There seems to be a recurring issue with ExpertFlyer and FB, leading to discrepancies between what EF shows and the real availability, specially since the dynamic award scheme is in place. At least one cause of the issue is the married segment logic also applying to awards and that EF cannot handle properly.

Yes, do not trust EF at all especially since O has recently become a revenue bucket on Medium Haul too, which can interfere with O award when a MH segment is married with an LH one


Originally Posted by sbams
It's not answering your question, which irishguy28 did perfectly already but just to give extra info: general consensus is that upgrades (except maybe for special offers at check-in) are not usually the best or necessarily the cheapest way to sit in a higher cabin. Often a direct redemption or purchase to the cabin in which you want to end up in is either easier or even better value, all things taken in to consideration (miles earned, benefits, certainty etc).

Of course there can be a bunch of reasons why you would want to upgrade later on after purchasing economy, but it's something to bear in mind for the future
I agree on the general statement but there are a few cases on which it can be interesting.

For example, if you buy Discounted Premium Economy (A), which is often sold for ca. 1000-1200 euros from outstations, you can upgrade to O for:
- 30k miles OW to America, be it west or east coast (so obviously West Coast has a better value)
- 52k miles OW to the Far East (I find it good on a flight to HND, for example: the return in Award Business would be 180 000 + 600 euros in taxes at the lowest, so paying 1000 euros + 104 000 miles seems a fair deal to me, considering you would earn XPs on that flight)
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Old Feb 8, 19, 3:27 am
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Even better value can be to buy S class which sometimes is not much more expensive than non promo A. Upgrade amounts are much lower though, 2 years ago I upgraded MAD CDG (stopover) HKG for 24k miles and earned 15k miles (now it would be half). The PSL agent who handled the upgrade availability check, the revenue ticket booking and the instant upgrade in one call, also upgraded my MAD CDG to J (no other booking class available) without me requesting, I was expecting to fly MAD CDG in Y and CDG HKG in J, very nice surprise. And free limo service to MAD ŗ la Emirates & Co.
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Old Feb 8, 19, 8:49 am
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Originally Posted by flyingjapans View Post
Although that's what I believed up until now, I have a counter experience from no later than yesterday: I inquired the Platinum Line about the upgrade availability on a PEK-CDG-ZRH flight on which the married flights showed up at 90.000 miles in Award Business which is the lowest price on that route. However the agent told me she could see no upgrade availability on that day.
What I said and what you were told are not incompatible.

I said: "If you are not offered a seat for outright redemption at the lowest-possible mileage price when doing a dummy Award booking, then there is no "O" award/upgrade space on the flight."

I did not say: "If you are offered a seat for outright redemption at the lowest-possible mileage price when doing a dummy Award booking, then there is definitely "O" upgrade space on the flight".

(You can only tell for sure when it is definitely NOT possible to upgrade. )
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Old Feb 10, 19, 2:32 pm
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Originally Posted by highlander100 View Post
Using expert flyer i can see that there is O class availablity on KL 452 AUH-AMS 2-April. i make the booking, Then call to upgrade, but they say there is no availablity to upgrade its sale tickets only.

How can you now tell if its possible to upgrade or not?
There is currently no Standard C Award/Upgrade Availability (CS) on that flight:

[KVS Tool 9.2.3/Diamond - Awards/AF-SkyTeam/FR-AF]
Code:
AUH  Abu Dhabi Intl AE [OMAA]
AMS  Amsterdam Schiphol NL [EHAM]
TUE  02 Apr 2019 | 1 Seat

Carrier    Flight  From  Depart    To    Arrive    A/C  St  Award Availability
---------  ------  ----  --------  ----  --------  ---  --  ------------------
KL         452     AUH   02:05     AMS   07:05     332      CV+  YV+
Originally Posted by highlander100 View Post
Man they donít make it easy. Thanks for the help.
No wondering why I bother with expert flyer.
See also Trying to Understand Upgrade Availability for AF.
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