EU261 Compensation declined - all other flights were operating?

Reply

Old Mar 13, 18, 12:00 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 18
EU261 Compensation declined - all other flights were operating?

I was booked onto KL985 AMS-LCY on the 5th of March and my flight was cancelled the previous afternoon. I was rerouted to LHR and arrive more than 2 hours later than my originally scheduled arrival. I have filed a claim for compensation, but KLM has denied my claim saying that the flight was cancelled due to adverse weather conditions. I find this hard to believe as the weather was perfect and every single other flight from Amsterdam to London was operating just fine that morning.

Could anyone help me with what the best approach is to dispute their claim?
blueparazol is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 13, 18, 12:28 pm
  #2  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 40,174
The fact that other carriers' aircraft were operating has little relevance to KL's operations, especially at its worldwide hub. If KL won't pay, your option is to sue. You live in the UK, so you can use the MCOL process. All the forms, including the letter before action, are available online. Rather than mucking around with back-and-forth, send the proper letter before action and then, if KL does not pay, you are free to file with MCOL.

The burden will be on KL to prove an extraordinary circumstance. But, don't be surprised if it can do so.
Often1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 13, 18, 1:35 pm
  #3  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: mostly not far from AMS, otherwise NUE
Programs: FB Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,765
This is interesting indeed. According to Flightradar24 the aircraft that was scheduled to operate the cancelled flight was PH-EZI, which arrived on time from Aalborg that morning. While it didn't operate KL985, it did operate KL983 AMS-LCY 40 minutes later.
mfkne is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 13, 18, 1:46 pm
  #4  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: The Netherlands
Programs: EY Silver, BA Bronze, Accor Gold
Posts: 4,930
Your flight was cancelled due to cockpit crew shortage. This is a widespread problem lately at KLC.
KLflyerRalph is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 13, 18, 2:07 pm
  #5  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: mostly not far from AMS, otherwise NUE
Programs: FB Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,765
...and therefore subject to compensation.
mfkne is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 13, 18, 3:34 pm
  #6  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: Gold: A3, AZ, BA, KL
Posts: 23,105
I was on a cancelled LHR KLC flight that same evening [the plane and crew were sent to do a DUB rotation instead] and got myself booked onto an earlier flight at the gate in T4 [rather than the 0630 flight the next morning I had been automatically rebooked onto] that got me home long before my original flight would have left it had it operated, and was thus far preferable.

Lodged a compensation claim on the following day, had the confirmation of the full €250 compensation last Friday.

What did you write on the cancellation compensation request form?

Last edited by irishguy28; Mar 13, 18 at 3:41 pm
irishguy28 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 13, 18, 4:24 pm
  #7  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: The Netherlands
Programs: EY Silver, BA Bronze, Accor Gold
Posts: 4,930
Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
I was on a cancelled LHR KLC flight that same evening [the plane and crew were sent to do a DUB rotation instead] and got myself booked onto an earlier flight at the gate in T4 [rather than the 0630 flight the next morning I had been automatically rebooked onto] that got me home long before my original flight would have left it had it operated, and was thus far preferable.

Lodged a compensation claim on the following day, had the confirmation of the full €250 compensation last Friday.

What did you write on the cancellation compensation request form?
Shouldn’t it be €125 then?
KLflyerRalph is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 13, 18, 4:36 pm
  #8  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 40,174
Originally Posted by mfkne View Post
...and therefore subject to compensation.
Maybe.

In massive IRROPS covering a good part of Western Europe, it is quite possible to have too many crews out-of-position or timed out. The good news about KL at AMS is that if there is a reserve crew to be had, it will be at AMS. The bad news is that there comes a point at which everything is stretched too far and when it is at one's worldwide hub, there is no place to go for more.

People make the same assertions about AF at CDG, LH at FRA and BA at LHR.
Often1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 13, 18, 5:02 pm
  #9  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: Gold: A3, AZ, BA, KL
Posts: 23,105
Originally Posted by KLflyerRalph View Post

Shouldn’t it be €125 then?
That's what I thought they would say, and I would not have complained.

However, the regulation is specific; not only is there a "2 hour arrival delay" trigger, but also a "no more than 1 hour earlier departure" trigger for the replacement flight. Crazy, like most of EC261/2004.

As I was doing a status run, it allowed me to do an immediate turn and return on the same plane. And more than paid for both tickets involved
irishguy28 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 14, 18, 2:14 am
  #10  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 18
Thank you for all the responses!

The fact that other carriers' aircraft were operating has little relevance to KL's operations, especially at its worldwide hub.
It was all KLM flights that I was talking about. These are all the KLM flights from Amsterdam to London that morning:

Flight STD ATD STA Status
KL0981 AMS-LCY 7:15 AM 7:48 AM 7:25 AM Landed 7:37 AM
KL1001 AMS-LHR 7:20 AM 7:29 AM 7:40 AM Landed 7:18 AM
KL0985 AMS-LCY 8:05 AM ----------- 8:10 AM Canceled
KL1007 AMS-LHR 8:35 AM 9:34 AM 9:00 AM Landed 9:28 AM
KL0983 AMS-LCY 8:45 AM 8:53 AM 8:50 AM Landed 8:38 AM
KL0987 AMS-LCY 9:25 AM 9:33 AM 9:30 AM Landed 9:24 AM
KL1031 AMS-LHR 5:35 PM 5:34 PM 5:55 PM Landed 5:22 PM
KL1009 AMS-LHR 10:20 AM 10:36 AM 10:45 AM Landed 10:44 AM
Your flight was cancelled due to cockpit crew shortage. This is a widespread problem lately at KLC.
Do you know that for a fact, or just that it's a usual problem? If so, how did you check it? I usually use ExpertFlyer to check the cancellation reason for my BA flights, but KLM flights don't seem to show any info.
blueparazol is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 14, 18, 2:24 am
  #11  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
I was on a cancelled LHR KLC flight that same evening [the plane and crew were sent to do a DUB rotation instead] and got myself booked onto an earlier flight at the gate in T4 [rather than the 0630 flight the next morning I had been automatically rebooked onto] that got me home long before my original flight would have left it had it operated, and was thus far preferable.

Lodged a compensation claim on the following day, had the confirmation of the full €250 compensation last Friday.

What did you write on the cancellation compensation request form?
I have filled out the form on their website: https://www.klm.com/travel/gb_en/cus...mpensation.htm
I have also claimed around 45 pounds for the Heathrow Express given that we landed at LHR instead of LCY and the two of us had to get to central London. They were happy to pay that, but no compensation for the cancellation.
blueparazol is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 14, 18, 4:23 am
  #12  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: The Netherlands
Programs: EY Silver, BA Bronze, Accor Gold
Posts: 4,930
Originally Posted by blueparazol View Post

Do you know that for a fact, or just that it's a usual problem? If so, how did you check it? I usually use ExpertFlyer to check the cancellation reason for my BA flights, but KLM flights don't seem to show any info.
I know that for a fact. But the info is unfortunately not publicly available so I’d challenge KLM on the reason for the cancellation and ask for proof.
KLflyerRalph is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 14, 18, 4:30 am
  #13  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by KLflyerRalph View Post

I know that for a fact. But the info is unfortunately not publicly available so I’d challenge KLM on the reason for the cancellation and ask for proof.
That's great news, thank you! I will contact them again and see how it goes. If they still won't pay, I'll file an MCOL as suggested.
blueparazol is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 20, 18, 9:29 am
  #14  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 18
After pointing the above things out and asking them to prove the cancellation was weather they have agreed to pay the compensation, so I didn't have to go down the MCOL route. Thanks everyone for the help, it turned out to be a lot easier than I expected!
blueparazol is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 7, 18, 3:54 pm
  #15  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: AMS
Programs: FB plat for life
Posts: 261
I can only commend KLMs customer service after my recent 'EU261 claim'.

Last week we were with a party of 6 on KL1929 AMS-GVA that got cancelled around 1 hour before departure. No reason given but I received a message via the KLM app and immediately called the Plat line. They were not aware of this cancellation yet, but got us booked onto the KL1931 - first flight after - almost 3 hours later.

Went to the lounge where I tried to get our seats sorted out (2 adults LTPE, 4 kids) without too much success and we enjoyed a decent lunch there.

Then I received a message the equipment for our alternative flight changed from E190 to 737 so went to the service desk and was able to get 6 seats in the front (Y).

KL1931 got delayed by 1 hour so all in all we arrived at GVA over 4 hours after our initial ETA - and our plans for dinner with friends in GVA before heading out into the mountains were canned

I decided to file for EU261 compensation and did this on Friday last week. We were on 2 separate (yet linked) PNRs and in my claim I referred to both.

Today (Tuesday) I received an email that for the 5 of us (in the core booking) KLM felt responsible and awarded us vouchers of EUR 350 each - or cash EUR 250 (as the EU261 stipulates).

I called to request the same for passenger no 6 and an hour later - same email for the last passenger. So we received EUR 1,500 cash or EUR 2,100 in vouchers from KLM for a 4 hour delay within Europe, that really caused us inconvenience - but in my mind is really compensated this way.

I was surprised we did not have to argue about 'extraordinary circumstances' as in the past that was KLM's standard initial response.

Perhaps the fact this was really an open and shut case - at the home airport - or the 2 LTPE's in the booking made this easier - don't know but certainly happy with how this was handled last week and also afterward.

When we are not happy this should be noted here - but when airlines do their thing well - even considering some issues - I think we should also point this out.
pjhartog is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread