scubaccr

It could be even worse than a fine for an errant airline

Some countries state they will revoke the airlines route authorisation if airline carries passengers without required checks which could be visa or even simpler requirement of an exit flight within xx days of arrival

Eg klm is very strict about flights to Philippines/Manila and insists you gave not just return/exit flight but also printed confirmation of the exit flight itinary, even if exit is same reservation return klm flight that checkin agent can see

KrnGrs

Seems to me that if he was allowed with the exact same passport 24 hrs later, he shouldn't have been denied boarding the first time around.

actuary0123

That is exactly what is pissing me off. When I showed up at the airport on the next day with SAME documents plus a print out from the State Department website, the SAME check-in manager issued boarding passes for the SAME itinerary. In fact, the manager mentioned that he did not recognize the fact that I had already obtained the travel visa and apologized.

To me, it seems very arbitrary on the manager's behalf. Other than emailing KLM's customer care, should I pursue any other alternatives?

justhere

It seems that you are saying you didn't point out on the first day that you already had the visa. Otherwise why would the manager say that he did not recognize you already had it.

Should he have recognized it without you pointing it out? Maybe, maybe not, but in the discussion you had on the first day when they told you you didn't have enough pages, it seems that you would have pointed out that you already had the visa.

eajusa

I would be petrified to leave my home country with only a half page. I never act as if I know it all. I would never assume half a page will suffice no matter how many times I check into something. There is such a thing as working ahead to prepare for ever contingency including the unexpected.

Often1

Many countries rely on private aggregators to publish accurate law. In the US, one can of course go to the original source court file and look at anything you want. But, West Publishing, a private company prints the recognized official report of published opinions and those decisions are cited the world round based on West's citation system.

TIMATIC is simply a database. It does not interpret the law. The question is whether it is a reliable reference.

It is for exactly the reasons that you point out that agents need a simple reference source. Perhaps a KL agent at ORD might reasonably know what a USN requires in order to enter the Netherlands at termination of the flight he is boarding. But, once it gets more complicated than that, TIMATIC seems pretty accurate and useful.

I see no ambiguity in the TIMATIC reference. A blank page is required. It does not suggest that the requirement is waived if one already has the visa. It makes no sense but many rules of this nature make no sense.

actuary0123

I showed the visa to the KLM staff on the first day but they kept insisting on the blank page.

Next day, I took one additional document with me (guideline from the State Dept) and informed the staff about the visa policy. The manager apologized and provided the boarding pass.

NickB

That is not remotely comparable. The governments of the world have not mandated, de jure or de facto, Timatic with publication of official immigration rules on admission to their territory. Timatic is a database produced by IATA for the benefit of its members. In other words, it is a service by airlines to airlines. It has an authority comparable to that which a handbook published by an airline for its employees would have.

It may be "useful" and it may be reasonable for an agent to use Timatic in the same way as an airline publishing a manual for its employees on immigration rules and practice in some countries may be "useful" and it would be appropriate for an agent to use such a manual.
But that still does not give it any official authority. And if the Tanzanian immigration authorities do not in reality require somebody who already has a visa to have a passport with a full blank page, then it means that the individual had the required documentation when he presented himself at check-in and that he was, therefore wrongly IDB'd, and it does not matter what timatic says.

I think that we will have to agree to disagree on this but, in any event, this makes ultimately no difference. The issue is not what what is or is not in timatic but rather what the Tanzanian authorities actually require from a person seeking entry.

Crazydre

Some People seem to think that IATA make up the rules stated in Timatic out of thin air. In fact, they have government contacts in all countries notifying them of changes.

Now, of course a lot of technologically-behind countries change their policies overnight and are lazy to notify IATA or otherwise announce it. Still Timatic is meant to display actual practice at the border.

That said, their info is sometimes outdated, which is why I have contact with its sourcing manager and message him whenever I have reason to think something is outdated and have evidence pointing towards it.

warakorn

KLM owes the OP EUR 600 in EC 261/2004 compensation.
If KLM misinterpreted visa rules, it's their problem.
Denied boarding compensation is not limited to a set of specific cases (e.g. overbooking). This is comparable to the DOT rules. It applies to virtually to all non-extraordinary cases, where the fault lies with the airline or its suppliers.

Tokyoite

Passports and passport replacing documents of all visitors
must contain at least 1 unused visa page for Visa
Administration Sticker (VAS), stamps, etc.

Period.

No where on TIMATIC does it say that this requirement for TANZANIA is waived if the traveler has already obtained an entry visa prior to travel.

You are lucky to have traveled the next day!
I suggest you take this as a bitter lesson and move on.

caliform

This seems complicated enough that you'd have to have it looked at in court. Not worth your time. It seems KLM was following rules. Perhaps they were following the wrong rules, but no forum can really put you in the right or wrong here. I suggest cutting your losses and moving on*.

* Also, getting a new passport.

Productivity

Timatic is inherently conservative - it has to be otherwise it's pointless. Airlines make Timatic available to check prior to flights so that you avoid these situations. Yes you had the visa in your passport, but how does a check in agent know that Tanzania doesn't still require a blank page for whatever reason they want.

I'd take this as a fly to close to the sun, occasionally lose scenario. Whenever I enter a country I'm not familiar with, I run a Timatic report and check that I'm fine - not just close but I fulfil every line there is. Is this overly cautious - absolutely and I almost certainly would have been able to chance things if I wanted to, but on the other hand I've never lost a day to visa interpretations either.

LondonElite

Since this event happened over two years ago, I think we can safely say that the case is closed.