KLflyerRalph

According to a tweet, Camiel Eurlings has mentioned to Zakenreisnieuws that KLM is planning on a new lounge for transfer passengers. That should make AMS more attractive for transfers compared with Dubai.

Aviatrix

You mean - an additional lounge?

I don't quite get it... the vast majority of KLM's passengers are transfer passengers. If they opened a dedicated lounge for transfer passengers only that would leave the other lounges practically empty!

Xandrios

I vote yes! Lounge 25 is a zoo at peak times!

chrismoose

I have taken to using lounge 52 when coming back to the UK, but its a bit of a trek to the lounge and back to D6, whereas 25 is right by passport control...

Henry III

There's possible confusion here over the meaning of the word, "lounge:" are we to understand it as a Business/Elite offering, such as the KLM Crown Lounges; or is it to be interpreted in the wider sense of the "Departure Lounge #2?"

-- Henry

KQ321

But does this mean a 'new business lounge for J-class and ST E+ pax' (as most other posters here have assumed) or an 'improved waiting area / departure "lounge"' for economy pax?

I could see the logic in both (although AMS already has some quite reasonable waiting areas for economy pax, away from the main thoroughfares and with reclined seats, etc - and I don't recall anything similar in the (non-EK) parts of DXB, just 'regular' airport-style seats...)

EDIT: I see Henry III has just raised the same question...

Henry III

Or, possibly, it's a sort of 'third option': An exclusive lounge for KLM (and partners?) transfer pax who are not otherwise entitled to use the Crown Lounges. That might make good sense, in terms of competing with the Gulf Carriers, ... but where would they put it?

-- Henry

irishguy28

What do you mean by transfer pax that are not otherwise entitled to use the Crown Lounges?

The Crown Lounges are open to everybody with lounge access rights - so do you mean having a new lounge with a lower/easier access standard?

Do you mean potentially that everyone who is transferring on KLM could use the "transfer lounge"? Perhaps if it something along the lines of the "Air Berlin exclusive waiting areas" (i.e. - not a lounge at all in the normal meanining of the word), then yes. But if it is a proper lounge - of the transfer pax that don't qualify for Crown Lounge access (Economy fliers without status) how would you determine which pax can access it and which can't - or would it be open to ALL transfer pax? That could potentially be tens of thousands of pax each day - that doesn't seem workable.

Henry III

I mean those who are not entitled to use the Crown Lounges: i.e., economy passengers who are not SkyTeam Elite+ cardholders!

Yes.

I have no idea what Mr Eurlings has in mind; I was suggesting the possibility of some sort of exclusive area for KLM transfer passengers - these would be easily identified, as they would have KLM tickets including a transfer at AMS, and (probably) the boarding cards to show that!

-- Henry

irishguy28

With Schiphol handling 18.7 million transfer passengers a year (meaning on average 51k transfer passengers passing through each day), and with "a vast majority" of these flying "with KLM or one of its partner airlines", I think allowing all KLM non-status pax in economy to have access to a lounge would mean having to buildi a brand new structure that could accommodate over 25,000 potential passengers every day...

johan rebel

Oh, yeah, right . . . a new lounge is all it will take to make AMS more attractive than Dubai?

I guess what he has in mind is something along these lines, then.

Johan

KQ321

I am amused at how a simple tweet can provoke so much speculation and debate here on FT...

As ST E+, I would of course be happy if this announcement referred to some kind of increase in capacity and/or facilities of the Crown lounges at AMS. However, given that KLM does rely so much on transfer pax, I could also see the logic of some kind of 'third option' for (non-ST E+) economy pax transferring on KLM. Such a 'third option' would presumably be along the lines of 'an enhanced regular departure lounge' (rather than a 'pseudo-business lounge') - for example: some moderately comfortable seats, and perhaps power-sockets, but no complimentary F&B offering (or perhaps just tea&coffee), in an access-controlled area, to limit it to eligible KLM pax (and avoid the constant to&fro that tends to disturb most 'public' seating areas at airports).

Until a few years ago, KQ actually had something like this at NBO - it was called a 'Transit Lounge', and was situated away from the (crowded) main gate areas, and had (I think) slightly better chairs than elsewhere, and a (paid) cafeteria counter. However, it was later replaced by an expanded lounge for premium pax (which sadly then burnt down in the fire...)

Thanks to irishguy for providing the daily passenger numbers. Assuming each person stays for one hour on average (some people wouldn't access it all, but others would stay longer), and that Schiphol is 'open' ~14hrs/day, then 25,000 transfer pax a day would imply this 'third option' lounge would require a capacity of at least ~1,800 people (minus however many use the existing Crown lounges, but plus whatever amount is required to cope with demand at peak times). That seems quite a lot to provide lounge space for (I'm not sure of the Crown lounges capacity, but I assume it's in the hundreds), but the numbers could be reduced by limiting eligibility somewhat (eg: only accessible to people with a transfer of at least X hours, or only to pax connecting to/from a long-haul flight - but limiting eligibility risk annoying pax who find they aren't eligible...), and the space per pax could presumably be less than in the Crown lounges.

And I guess there is also a tricky balance with existing facilities at AMS - KLM presumably wouldn't want to undermine its existing lounge product, and Schiphol wouldn't want to discourage transfer pax from spending time (and hence money) in the existing shops and cafes.

Overall, it does seem the 'third option' would be challenging to implement. However, I guess we need to wait for KLM to make formal announcement on what this actually means... (I assume this is the tweet that KLflyerRalph was referring to, but I can't find any other details online anywhere...)

KLflyerRalph

I asked KLM and they are very vague about it and saying they are only upgrading the current lounge and not building a new one.
If there is truly a dedicated lounge for transfer pax, I would assume this is for passengers on long layovers (EK also provides extra services for those pax, certainly not all transferring passengers!).
Zakenreisnieuws is always quite reliable so I am curious too how this ends.

HJBoeing

Maybe this refers to the fact that the current Crown Lounge (52) has to move, at least partially) due to the construction going on at the F Concourse. They are building an additional floor on the F (E and G) concourse(s) to separate arriving passengers from departing passengers. At the F concourse this additional floor will cut through the existing Crown Lounge, as this lounge is located partially on top of the F concourse. So maybe Camiel Eurlings is referring to the fact that they will (partially) move the existing Crown Lounge while simultaneously improving it?

KLflyerRalph

Zakenreis.nl now reports that the current lounge will be upgraded and will become larger:

What prompted zakenreisnieuws.nl to Tweet there would be a new lounge for transfer PAX, I don't know.