irishguy28

Well, of course, each route has its own pricing dynamics, and if you have to fly to the US, indeed, it makes no odds how much further you can get, for the same money, when you're not bound to a particular destination.

But given that we are frequent flyers/mileage hounds, it's at least interesting to compare the costs (and product!) that a certain amount of money can get you when the destination has not been decided by outside factors - such as work.

I've never paid for business class to the USA (but have made a few biz-class redemptions). The prices charged across the Atlantic, and thplanes/carrires flying these routes, are not worth the money in my opinion. But I often pay for J to Asia and Australia. You get far more bang for your buck there!

I know I've gone way off-topic here, sorry.

I can understand, though, why KLM want to offer upgrades, and run it the way they do - at OLCI they have a handy list of names, with confirmed payment details and maximum bids, which allows them to easily decide how to move up to the next cabin. It's a good way of trying to see the new biz cabin on the cheap (I did succumb to that €279 offer for a daytime flight) but once was enough. All of my travel is out of my own pocket, and I can find far better uses of that money than paying for upgrades, even if they are much below the market/going rates for that cabin!

TATL prices are horrific.


Exactly...pricing is relative. But for me, I consider the short transatlantic hop to be sufficiently short to do in economy. On daytime flights, that's a no-brainer. On the nighttime flight, it's not really as if you can get the maximum benefit from the flat bed.

baccarat_king

Agree with all of your points, and I do not really think we are that off topic. It's interesting to see how people potentially justify or NOT justify an upgrade (price) offer.

I think dialogue like this is good, since a very common (often newbie) question is : "is this upgrade worth x." As we know, that is hard to answer but at least now a few folks see the ideology about framing such an answer.

Grouchy

Happened to me as well. When talking about it on the phone with a KL agent she said something like 'ooh those seats are supposedly not being released when bidding when there are less then 7 available'

Klmdwsq

Interesting to see that many perceive the value of red eye flights higher than daytime fights. For me, it's exactly the opposite. I tend to knock myself out with sleeping pills on overnight flights, and then it doesn't make much difference whether you fly business or economy.

The day flights however are much worse in economy. Being awake for 6-12 hours without much space is an important reason for me to value space much higher on day flights..

f0zzyNUE

interesting stuff - I was bidding for LIM-AMS - 349€ (minimum bid 329€ with two people who had already placed a bid) ... then two days prior to departure the bids were over 1050€. of course I did not win my bid.

however during online checkin a business class upgrade was offered for 309€ - downside - I ran into a technical error and could not grab the upgrade

cityflyer369

Thank you. Good to know.

irishguy28

Good thing that wasn't for LIS-AMS, which is what my eyes initially deceived me into thinking!!!

vexorg

This bidding nonsense will be the death of our free upgrades now. A free upgrade was about the only real benefit of platinum or gold. Unlikely to be any business class seats in long haul now if they sell them off cheap.

baccarat_king

You mean OpUps? Yes, most airlines have figured out that they can "monetise" the business class cabin vis-a-vis day of departure upgrades.

This is why, it's more common to get a buy-up (OLCI, Kiosk) when a flight is looking like it might be oversold in economy class. I must say, that has not been my experience with bidding. With regard to my rather small sample (4 tries, last few months) I have won the bids when the business class cabin was "more empty."

I was tracking this via ExpertFlyer, FWIW, but I didn't really think the correlation was that powerful to post about.

It seems, if there are only 1-3 seats available in business class, KLM is reluctant to allow people to win bids and upgrades (my personal observation). But, perhaps, the fact that economy class was not oversold (or close to oversold) made a difference.

irishguy28

That was never a benefit - and we've had loads of reports of non-revs or non-status pax getting upgraded ahead of status pax.

Were you luckier than usual in receiving upgrades? You should report it here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-f...-af-kl-16.html

But indeed, as KLM now tries to entice others to pay a little extra to sit in a higher class, the chances of op-ups being required is considerably diminished.

vexorg

Appeared to happen more when platinum and only a few times on gold.

I had spoken tot he gate staff and Amsterdam a few times about it and they confirmed it was done by status, so if I was gold then the platinum economy people would be chosen ahead of me.

It's probably not more than normal, usually 7 or 8 long haul trips a year, and on average less than 1 upgrade per year. About 10 in 15 years. It's such a joy on a 12 hour flight.

Zembla

And tbh, I can't blame them for that.

I also agree with what you said. From my experience E+ have nothing more than a slight advantage for opups over other passengers since FD and FP merged.

irishguy28

Neither do I. They should have started doing this years ago.

vexorg

That's fine if you can consider business class as an option, but with company paid flights where they want to minimise every cost then it tough luck for 99% of real business travellers. These prices would still double my cost to the far east, and I'm not prepared to spend an extra €500-€750 per leg out of my pocket for a company trip just because it's a bargain.

Start it at €100 then I might be think about it

irishguy28

I'd have thought "real business travellers" are the ones that benefit most from this.

I pay for all my flights. If I was being shuttled around the world on someone else's dime, then it would be far easier to splash out a few hundred quid every once in a while to upgrade yourself!

After all, if you're on a "free trip" and you suddenly have the option to try for a business class upgrade for €300 or so of your own money - why not give it a lash? Work will never know, and you don't have to claim it back if it's just something you want to do for yourself.