KLM introduces Smart Boarding on EU flights
Mar 11, 2014, 4:19 am
#91
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And from the moment a specific group of passengers, regardless of their seat number, is given the lowest boarding numbers (i.e. SkyPriority or people requiring assistance), you break your wonderful simulation.
And what of the parents and children ... suppose child A is in a window seat, child B is in the middle, and the parent is on the aisle ... do you split them in 3, or allow them to board together? Mostly likely, another break to the model.
Or what of people traveling together, do you split them up?
The theory is nice, but reality will most likely mean that it will not work as advertised. I will happily be proved wrong, but right now, I'm on the side of the skeptics.
Cheers,
GenevaFlyer
And what of the parents and children ... suppose child A is in a window seat, child B is in the middle, and the parent is on the aisle ... do you split them in 3, or allow them to board together? Mostly likely, another break to the model.
Or what of people traveling together, do you split them up?
The theory is nice, but reality will most likely mean that it will not work as advertised. I will happily be proved wrong, but right now, I'm on the side of the skeptics.
Cheers,
GenevaFlyer
Mar 11, 2014, 6:34 am
#92
Join Date: Jun 2012
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European airlines should learn from North-American airlines, by introducing Boarding Zones. This system seems overly complicated. Why not just print the boarding number on the boarding pass?
Mar 11, 2014, 10:53 am
#94
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I was amazed how orderly EK managed to board an A380 at AMS. I was expecting chaos but everyone adhered to the order and announcements; from the back to the front. Zones were already on the BP and announcements were clear and firm to stay seated when your zone was not called.
On a side note, Emirates also policed the premium waiting area at the gate for F & J. They cordoned of the area and only let PAX with an eligible BP in. That way they could board the upperdeck fast and afterwards it was the lower deck from the back to the front. There was no mad dash to the jetway when the first group was announced.
If only KL could do it too...
On a side note, Emirates also policed the premium waiting area at the gate for F & J. They cordoned of the area and only let PAX with an eligible BP in. That way they could board the upperdeck fast and afterwards it was the lower deck from the back to the front. There was no mad dash to the jetway when the first group was announced.
If only KL could do it too...
Mar 12, 2014, 7:22 am
#95
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Because the boarding pass can be printed 30+ hours before the flight, and many things can change between the time the first BP was printed until the boarding is ready to start.
Mar 12, 2014, 10:52 am
#96
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Absolutely not! Look at how DL butchered this idea (Zone 1 is actually the 3rd zone to board). You're also comparing apples to oranges because most people in the US do follow boarding instructions. For a KL flight to an Eastern European country, the second they hear "ladies and gentlemen" everybody pushes and shoves their way onto the plane.
People might push forward but that simply requires the agents to stand their ground, as they would if a BP is rejected by the machine. It's an airport not a prison, no one is going to start a riot
I have at some point boarded an ex-JFK DL flight for somewhere in Europe, I don't remember now, but it was clear most pax did not understand English. At each zoning announcement everyone pushed forward, but the agents stood their ground and the rushing passengers were smashed back like the sea upon granite.
Over and over again, "No, we are only boarding SkyPriority passengers. If your boarding pass does not say SKY on it, return to the back of the line."—That is how it should be done.
Mar 12, 2014, 11:31 am
#97
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I do agree with all that more policing should be done by the gate agents, but in my opinion the problem would also be solved if people actually waited their turn (waiting until boarding is called for them, either by zones or Smart Boarding).
Mar 14, 2014, 9:29 am
#98
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I arrived at a LHR T5 longhaul gate the other week just as boarding was announced, and plenty of people chose the shorter Fast Track lane. To my satisfaction, the ineligible were actually sent packing when they got to the boarding card checkpoint.
Johan
Mar 15, 2014, 3:20 am
#99
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Mar 19, 2014, 10:42 am
#101
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GenevaFlyer
Jul 3, 2014, 2:25 am
#102
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KL just seem to be congenitally incapable of boarding passengers in a timely fashion.
I flew CPH-AMS yesterday. They started about 20 minutes before STD, and actually followed procedures at the gate. There was a separate entry for priority pax (of which there were a surprising number) and these were boarded right after the families with infants, and then followed by the rest of the pax. The aircraft had already been refueled by the time boarding started, and the bags were being loaded, yet we still ended up departing some 15 minutes late. The competing SK CPH-AMS flight, with exactly the same STD and also fully booked, arrived about ten minutes before we did.
I've flown SK quite a bit on this route recently, and they seem to have no trouble getting it right.
- SK boards priorty pax first, and then by seat row blocks, but I don't have the feeling that makes much of a difference.
- KL certainly have an issue with the amount and size of carry-ons. My impression is that this is less of a problem on SK flights, but only marginally so.
- KL flights usually depart from A-gates at CPH. These have a holding pen, so they could scan boarding cards as pax arrive and then board them directly from the pen, but they have chosen not to. Just like SK, they scan pax as they board, so no difference there either.
I find it really hard to put my finger on why they get it so wrong. Boarding earlier would be the obvious solution, but that's utterly incompatible with a 35 minute turn-around time. Yeah, their fancy new scientific boarding method might solve all problem as if by magic, but I don't exactly get the impression that they are in a hurry to implement it world-wide. Has it even been expanded beyond the initial trial destinations? In any case, SK seem to be doing just fine without it.
I've noticed that Norwegian uses both the forward and aft doors for (dis)embarkation at CPH. Those using the aft door have to walk across the apron from the plane to the jetway, but hey, it works!
Johan
I flew CPH-AMS yesterday. They started about 20 minutes before STD, and actually followed procedures at the gate. There was a separate entry for priority pax (of which there were a surprising number) and these were boarded right after the families with infants, and then followed by the rest of the pax. The aircraft had already been refueled by the time boarding started, and the bags were being loaded, yet we still ended up departing some 15 minutes late. The competing SK CPH-AMS flight, with exactly the same STD and also fully booked, arrived about ten minutes before we did.
I've flown SK quite a bit on this route recently, and they seem to have no trouble getting it right.
- SK boards priorty pax first, and then by seat row blocks, but I don't have the feeling that makes much of a difference.
- KL certainly have an issue with the amount and size of carry-ons. My impression is that this is less of a problem on SK flights, but only marginally so.
- KL flights usually depart from A-gates at CPH. These have a holding pen, so they could scan boarding cards as pax arrive and then board them directly from the pen, but they have chosen not to. Just like SK, they scan pax as they board, so no difference there either.
I find it really hard to put my finger on why they get it so wrong. Boarding earlier would be the obvious solution, but that's utterly incompatible with a 35 minute turn-around time. Yeah, their fancy new scientific boarding method might solve all problem as if by magic, but I don't exactly get the impression that they are in a hurry to implement it world-wide. Has it even been expanded beyond the initial trial destinations? In any case, SK seem to be doing just fine without it.
I've noticed that Norwegian uses both the forward and aft doors for (dis)embarkation at CPH. Those using the aft door have to walk across the apron from the plane to the jetway, but hey, it works!
Johan
Jul 31, 2014, 12:41 pm
#103
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I arrived at CPH a few weeks back, on a KLM flight that they somehow managed to board just on time, but we then ended up pushing back late anyway because they had not finished loading the luggage.
Having disembarked, I noticed that a Norwegian flight was about to board at the adjacent gate. I decided to stay and watch. I did not count the pax in the holding pen, but there were far more pax than seats. Nevertheless, the single gate agent (KL employs at least two at CPH) managed to board them in seven minutes. The only reason it took so long was because a single guy held the whole thing up for a while. After a lot of talking and tapping on the screen by the agent, the pax turned around, pushed his way out of the holding pen and was last seen running like a bat out of hell. My guess is that he had somehow tried to board the wrong flight. I hope he found the right gate in time.
The pax boarded via the jetway (rows 1 -14), or went down the stairs to the apron, and up again via the aft aircraft door (rows 15 - 32). It worked like a charm, by the time the the holding area was empty there were no pax at all queueing in the jetway, and the last few were walking towards the aft stairs. The agent then made an announcement for stragglers, upon which half a dozen immediately showed up out of nowhere. Boarding was essentially completed in 11 minutes, although one or two latecomers ran up just as I walked away.
I flew CPH-AMS again yesterday, and it took them 26 minutes to board an almost full flight, despite using proper procedures, i.e. correctly boarding families and priority pax first. They even had everybody line up at separate entry points. The result was that we pushed back 10 minutes late, followed by an unusually long (by CPH standards) taxi of 14 minutes to the runway, and a take-off in the "wrong" direction (+5 minutes). At least we were not sentenced to the Polderbaan on arrival, so we got to the gate only 11 minutes late.
Once again, if KL ever want to get anywhere close to turning aircraft around in 35 minutes, they must try a lot harder to get it right.
Johan
Having disembarked, I noticed that a Norwegian flight was about to board at the adjacent gate. I decided to stay and watch. I did not count the pax in the holding pen, but there were far more pax than seats. Nevertheless, the single gate agent (KL employs at least two at CPH) managed to board them in seven minutes. The only reason it took so long was because a single guy held the whole thing up for a while. After a lot of talking and tapping on the screen by the agent, the pax turned around, pushed his way out of the holding pen and was last seen running like a bat out of hell. My guess is that he had somehow tried to board the wrong flight. I hope he found the right gate in time.
The pax boarded via the jetway (rows 1 -14), or went down the stairs to the apron, and up again via the aft aircraft door (rows 15 - 32). It worked like a charm, by the time the the holding area was empty there were no pax at all queueing in the jetway, and the last few were walking towards the aft stairs. The agent then made an announcement for stragglers, upon which half a dozen immediately showed up out of nowhere. Boarding was essentially completed in 11 minutes, although one or two latecomers ran up just as I walked away.
I flew CPH-AMS again yesterday, and it took them 26 minutes to board an almost full flight, despite using proper procedures, i.e. correctly boarding families and priority pax first. They even had everybody line up at separate entry points. The result was that we pushed back 10 minutes late, followed by an unusually long (by CPH standards) taxi of 14 minutes to the runway, and a take-off in the "wrong" direction (+5 minutes). At least we were not sentenced to the Polderbaan on arrival, so we got to the gate only 11 minutes late.
Once again, if KL ever want to get anywhere close to turning aircraft around in 35 minutes, they must try a lot harder to get it right.
Johan
Oct 22, 2014, 12:33 pm
#104
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
I wonder if this project died a sudden death?
My flight was delayed today due to a late incoming aircraft. They managed to offload the arriving pax in less than 20 minutes, but then it took 25 to board the departing ones.
KL seems to be congenitally incapable properly organizing something that other airlines seemingly do with ease. My gut feeling is that the non-enforcement of carry-on limits lies at the root of the problem. Everything would go a lot faster on board if excess and oversize bags were confiscated before boarding, although that might just move the bottleneck to the gate.
Upon arrival at Schiphol I walked past C7, where boarding was in progress. An announcement was made in Dutch, advising pax that as the flight was full, carry-ons would be confiscated at the gate. They then proceeded to ask for volunteers willing to surrender their bags. My impression was that they were not only looking for oversized bags, but were going to gate check regulation-sized ones too. I could see various pax hastily opening bags and transfering items between them, so the announcement had some effect, even though it was not repeated in English.
Johan
My flight was delayed today due to a late incoming aircraft. They managed to offload the arriving pax in less than 20 minutes, but then it took 25 to board the departing ones.
KL seems to be congenitally incapable properly organizing something that other airlines seemingly do with ease. My gut feeling is that the non-enforcement of carry-on limits lies at the root of the problem. Everything would go a lot faster on board if excess and oversize bags were confiscated before boarding, although that might just move the bottleneck to the gate.
Upon arrival at Schiphol I walked past C7, where boarding was in progress. An announcement was made in Dutch, advising pax that as the flight was full, carry-ons would be confiscated at the gate. They then proceeded to ask for volunteers willing to surrender their bags. My impression was that they were not only looking for oversized bags, but were going to gate check regulation-sized ones too. I could see various pax hastily opening bags and transfering items between them, so the announcement had some effect, even though it was not repeated in English.
Johan
Oct 22, 2014, 2:35 pm
#105
Join Date: May 2009
Programs: Lufthansa SEN, FB Gold, BA Silver
Posts: 278
I wonder if this project died a sudden death?
My flight was delayed today due to a late incoming aircraft. They managed to offload the arriving pax in less than 20 minutes, but then it took 25 to board the departing ones.
KL seems to be congenitally incapable properly organizing something that other airlines seemingly do with ease. My gut feeling is that the non-enforcement of carry-on limits lies at the root of the problem. Everything would go a lot faster on board if excess and oversize bags were confiscated before boarding, although that might just move the bottleneck to the gate.
Upon arrival at Schiphol I walked past C7, where boarding was in progress. An announcement was made in Dutch, advising pax that as the flight was full, carry-ons would be confiscated at the gate. They then proceeded to ask for volunteers willing to surrender their bags. My impression was that they were not only looking for oversized bags, but were going to gate check regulation-sized ones too. I could see various pax hastily opening bags and transfering items between them, so the announcement had some effect, even though it was not repeated in English.
Johan
My flight was delayed today due to a late incoming aircraft. They managed to offload the arriving pax in less than 20 minutes, but then it took 25 to board the departing ones.
KL seems to be congenitally incapable properly organizing something that other airlines seemingly do with ease. My gut feeling is that the non-enforcement of carry-on limits lies at the root of the problem. Everything would go a lot faster on board if excess and oversize bags were confiscated before boarding, although that might just move the bottleneck to the gate.
Upon arrival at Schiphol I walked past C7, where boarding was in progress. An announcement was made in Dutch, advising pax that as the flight was full, carry-ons would be confiscated at the gate. They then proceeded to ask for volunteers willing to surrender their bags. My impression was that they were not only looking for oversized bags, but were going to gate check regulation-sized ones too. I could see various pax hastily opening bags and transfering items between them, so the announcement had some effect, even though it was not repeated in English.
Johan