Splitting a journey in AMS
Jun 19, 2013, 8:05 am
#1
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Splitting a journey in AMS
Hello
If I wanted to fly uk-AMS-elsewhere, but have a few nights in AMS going one way, would it be possible to buy two round-trips, one uk-AMS, the other AMS-elsewhere (both sets would be KLM)?
Following on from that (and this may be the sticking point) could I combine the two sets in one direction (allowing the AMS minimum connection time), or would this mean I'd have to collect luggage in AMS and re-checkin?
If I wanted to fly uk-AMS-elsewhere, but have a few nights in AMS going one way, would it be possible to buy two round-trips, one uk-AMS, the other AMS-elsewhere (both sets would be KLM)?
Following on from that (and this may be the sticking point) could I combine the two sets in one direction (allowing the AMS minimum connection time), or would this mean I'd have to collect luggage in AMS and re-checkin?
Jun 19, 2013, 8:40 am
#2
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Remember that long-haul flights (in particular) can often experience considerable delays. If you're travelling in winter, you may have sudden, short-notice weather-related cancellations on the shorthaul network to contend with. And if you are booking many, many months in advance, you may find that some, or all, of your flights get retimed and you suddenly no longer have a valid or realistic connection.
When booking travel on separate tickets, remember that you are assuming all the risk for missed connections, so you MUST build in sufficient time - and then add an extra couple of hours of buffer time - to increase your chances of actually making the connection, and of having the agent agree to transfer your bags
If you want to spend a few nights in Amsterdam, why not have nights there in both directions?
Last edited by irishguy28; Jun 19, 2013 at 8:45 am
Jun 19, 2013, 8:40 am
#3
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Try clicking the "Multiple Destinations" link above the "From" airport on the KLM booking screen.
This will allow you to enter a three part journey on a single ticket, such as:
MAN - BKK - (1 week in Bangkok)
BKK - AMS - (3 days in Amsterdam)
AMS - MAN
If you take the AMS stopover on the outward journey you might even save on the evil UK departure tax.
This will allow you to enter a three part journey on a single ticket, such as:
MAN - BKK - (1 week in Bangkok)
BKK - AMS - (3 days in Amsterdam)
AMS - MAN
If you take the AMS stopover on the outward journey you might even save on the evil UK departure tax.
Jun 19, 2013, 8:42 am
#4
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What you want is certainly possible on one itinary. You just have to add the stopover in AMS to it.
It is also possible to do it on two separate tickets, and even check your luggage through. That is called nesting tickets. The airlines are not always very keen on nested tickets, because it is a possibility to cheat the fare system. I've done it without problems though, when I added other nested reservations later, simply because I had to do some additional travel. They can't forbid that. you see the grey zone is large!
In some cases everything on one itinary can be cheaper, too. So it may pay off to compare.
It is also possible to do it on two separate tickets, and even check your luggage through. That is called nesting tickets. The airlines are not always very keen on nested tickets, because it is a possibility to cheat the fare system. I've done it without problems though, when I added other nested reservations later, simply because I had to do some additional travel. They can't forbid that. you see the grey zone is large!
In some cases everything on one itinary can be cheaper, too. So it may pay off to compare.
Jun 19, 2013, 8:48 am
#6
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Try clicking the "Multiple Destinations" link above the "From" airport on the KLM booking screen.
This will allow you to enter a three part journey on a single ticket, such as:
MAN - BKK - (1 week in Bangkok)
BKK - AMS - (3 days in Amsterdam)
AMS - MAN
If you take the AMS stopover on the outward journey you might even save on the evil UK departure tax.
This will allow you to enter a three part journey on a single ticket, such as:
MAN - BKK - (1 week in Bangkok)
BKK - AMS - (3 days in Amsterdam)
AMS - MAN
If you take the AMS stopover on the outward journey you might even save on the evil UK departure tax.
I don't think the UK APD can be avoided by the above suggestion. UK APD can be avoided if any stopover in the UK itself is less than 24 hours, but on tickets that depart from the UK, it is levied regardless. A ticket from UK to wherever will carry the appropriate APD for the final journey, regardless of where any stopovers are made, and regardless of how long the intermediate stopover lasts. The key is to not have a ticket with a longhaul destination included issued in the UK at all.
You'll avoid having a UK longhaul APD factored in buy buying the longhaul (if it even is a longhaul that is under consideration by the OP) by starting that ticket in AMS.
Jun 19, 2013, 8:54 am
#8
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In my experience, though, once you use the "Multi Stop" facility on the KLM website, it starts selecting from higher fare buckets only - the prices are always far, far higher than you would expect.
And buying a multi-city or multi-stop ticket won't absolve the OP from having to pay the full UK APD if the ticket originates in the UK.
Jun 19, 2013, 9:24 am
#9
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The UK APD is reduced from £83.00 to £13 on the final price specification when the AMS stopover is above 24 hours (on a multiple destination ticket).
But on the few examples I tried, the base ticket price was increased, so it actually worked out slightly more expensive.
Last edited by Davee58; Jun 19, 2013 at 9:31 am
Jun 19, 2013, 9:35 am
#10
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I don't think the UK APD can be avoided by the above suggestion. UK APD can be avoided if any stopover in the UK itself is less than 24 hours, but on tickets that depart from the UK, it is levied regardless. A ticket from UK to wherever will carry the appropriate APD for the final journey, regardless of where any stopovers are made, and regardless of how long the intermediate stopover lasts. The key is to not have a ticket with a longhaul destination included issued in the UK at all.
Your point on higher ticket price for adding a stopover is true, depending on the ticketing rules on stopovers.
Jun 19, 2013, 9:37 am
#11
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But what you have noted was still the current advice in 2011:
Originally Posted by The Telegraph, in 2011
Air Passenger Duty: how to avoid it
Don't connect
Many airlines offer long-haul fares via an intermediate airport. For example, you could book a ticket with KLM to Bangkok, changing planes at Amsterdam; or with Emirates to Australia, changing planes in Dubai. Those fares are nearly always sold as "through" tickets and, as a result, you will be charged the rate of tax applicable to the final destination (though see below). But if you buy two separate tickets – to Amsterdam with easyJet, for example, then to Bangkok with KLM – you will only pay the rate to Amsterdam (there is no departure tax from Amsterdam airport).
The problem is that most agents in Britain are geared up to sell tickets out of London, and it can be harder to find bargain fares from airports outside the UK. You will also lose your connection "rights" – if there is no through ticket and you miss the onward flight, you may have to buy another ticket (though this might be covered on your travel insurance).
Trailfinders has pointed out that, even if you buy a through ticket, if you include a stopover that is a minimum of 24 hours long en route, you will only be charged the tax to that interim destination. Stop for a break in Dubai en route to Australia and your UK APD is reduced from £92 to £65. Do the same in Amsterdam and it shrinks to £13. All other taxes remain the same. Note this strategy doesn't work in Singapore because you are subject to other increased taxes locally.
Don't connect
Many airlines offer long-haul fares via an intermediate airport. For example, you could book a ticket with KLM to Bangkok, changing planes at Amsterdam; or with Emirates to Australia, changing planes in Dubai. Those fares are nearly always sold as "through" tickets and, as a result, you will be charged the rate of tax applicable to the final destination (though see below). But if you buy two separate tickets – to Amsterdam with easyJet, for example, then to Bangkok with KLM – you will only pay the rate to Amsterdam (there is no departure tax from Amsterdam airport).
The problem is that most agents in Britain are geared up to sell tickets out of London, and it can be harder to find bargain fares from airports outside the UK. You will also lose your connection "rights" – if there is no through ticket and you miss the onward flight, you may have to buy another ticket (though this might be covered on your travel insurance).
Trailfinders has pointed out that, even if you buy a through ticket, if you include a stopover that is a minimum of 24 hours long en route, you will only be charged the tax to that interim destination. Stop for a break in Dubai en route to Australia and your UK APD is reduced from £92 to £65. Do the same in Amsterdam and it shrinks to £13. All other taxes remain the same. Note this strategy doesn't work in Singapore because you are subject to other increased taxes locally.
Jun 21, 2013, 9:38 am
#12
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I just got off the phone with a very pleasant KLM reservation agent. I tried to book a flight with a stopover in Ams. On ITA I found some pretty good (schedule-wise and price-wise) flights in G with the stopover of 19 hours on the outbound. However, the agent told me that any stopover which is overnight books automatically into N or higher and in my case I would end up paying around 100 euros more. I thought that a stopover on an international flight, in my case all segments are within the EU, requires a stay in AMS of more than 24hours. But apparently any overnight stay on (short-haul) itinerary is for KL's reservation system regarded as a stopover.
Does anyone have the same experience (made recently)?
Does anyone have the same experience (made recently)?
Jun 21, 2013, 3:09 pm
#13
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Not recent, but:
- stopovers (>24 hours) in AMS kick the fares very high (B fares)
- long layovers (<24 hours) are treated as normal fares, as if the connection was 1h
- check DL.com; they are often more flexible than klm for the flights that you want
- stopovers (>24 hours) in AMS kick the fares very high (B fares)
- long layovers (<24 hours) are treated as normal fares, as if the connection was 1h
- check DL.com; they are often more flexible than klm for the flights that you want
Jun 21, 2013, 5:04 pm
#14
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Jun 21, 2013, 5:28 pm
#15
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thanks for the DL.com suggestion - I booked it there and in the low fare class I was looking for
