how to deal with refused delay claim (EU 261/2004)
Aug 20, 2010, 8:04 am
#1
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how to deal with refused delay claim (EU 261/2004)
On june 02, 2010 my return flight KL872 (DEL-AMS) was delayed with more than 5 hours.
At regular check-in time I was contacted by KLM staff in Amsterdam, notifying me that the inbound flight from AMS to DEL was seriously delayed.
For once I decided to claim compensation according to European law (EU 261/2004). Main reason for claiming was that the delay caused me to sit and wait until 5.30 AM in the morning, without any further care from KLM.
Only after contacting customer service myself, I received a simple and short statement, telling me that KLM does not accept to honor any delay claims under the EU regulations.
They simply write that they have different interpretation of the regulation and therefor do not honor delay claims.
Interesting to see, how a big company can decide to put itself above the law, when dealing with an individual.
Apart from going to court (which I read is a successful way of getting compensation from KLM) or using claim companies, I would be very much interested if anybody has been successful in other ways to receive compensation from KLM for flight delay.
thanks for your input!
At regular check-in time I was contacted by KLM staff in Amsterdam, notifying me that the inbound flight from AMS to DEL was seriously delayed.
For once I decided to claim compensation according to European law (EU 261/2004). Main reason for claiming was that the delay caused me to sit and wait until 5.30 AM in the morning, without any further care from KLM.
Only after contacting customer service myself, I received a simple and short statement, telling me that KLM does not accept to honor any delay claims under the EU regulations.
They simply write that they have different interpretation of the regulation and therefor do not honor delay claims.
Interesting to see, how a big company can decide to put itself above the law, when dealing with an individual.
Apart from going to court (which I read is a successful way of getting compensation from KLM) or using claim companies, I would be very much interested if anybody has been successful in other ways to receive compensation from KLM for flight delay.
thanks for your input!
Last edited by wjv144; Aug 20, 2010 at 8:56 am
Aug 20, 2010, 8:08 am
#2
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Send a letter. This is simply unacceptable. Unless there's more you are not saying, I cannot even conceive a similar answer!
Aug 20, 2010, 8:55 am
#3
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I have made my claim by official letter.
Used one of the example letters, that various consumer associations publish on their sites.
just to make sure to use the correct wording...
and FYI, no hidden or omitted info that can be added.
The KLM response is in Dutch, but if interesting I am happy to post it.
Used one of the example letters, that various consumer associations publish on their sites.
just to make sure to use the correct wording...
and FYI, no hidden or omitted info that can be added.
The KLM response is in Dutch, but if interesting I am happy to post it.
Aug 20, 2010, 10:40 am
#5
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 7,560
This is a delay, not a cancellation.
In cases of delay customers have a right to care but not to compensation.
"Care" means meals, telephone calls, and a hotel (at the airline's expense) if the passenger is delayed overnight.
EUclaim won't help with claims relating to airlines' failure to provide care in case of delays (I thought they did, but they don't). They only help with claims for compensation where a flight has been cancelled.
In cases of delay customers have a right to care but not to compensation.
"Care" means meals, telephone calls, and a hotel (at the airline's expense) if the passenger is delayed overnight.
EUclaim won't help with claims relating to airlines' failure to provide care in case of delays (I thought they did, but they don't). They only help with claims for compensation where a flight has been cancelled.
Aug 20, 2010, 10:43 am
#6
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The OP should complain to the Dutch national enforcement body, but it doesn't seem to be very keen on forcing KL to obey the regulation.
Aug 20, 2010, 1:13 pm
#7
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This is a delay, not a cancellation.
In cases of delay customers have a right to care but not to compensation.
"Care" means meals, telephone calls, and a hotel (at the airline's expense) if the passenger is delayed overnight.
EUclaim won't help with claims relating to airlines' failure to provide care in case of delays (I thought they did, but they don't). They only help with claims for compensation where a flight has been cancelled.
In cases of delay customers have a right to care but not to compensation.
"Care" means meals, telephone calls, and a hotel (at the airline's expense) if the passenger is delayed overnight.
EUclaim won't help with claims relating to airlines' failure to provide care in case of delays (I thought they did, but they don't). They only help with claims for compensation where a flight has been cancelled.
Due to a lack of time to actually read the thing; quoting Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_261/2004#Delays
Cash compensation is a payment of:
€250, for a flight of less than 1500 km
€400, for flight within the EU of greater than 1500 km in distance, or any other flight of greater than 1500 km but less than 3500 km in distance
€600, for a flight not within EU of greater than 3500 km in distance where flight types are as defined in notes. Where rerouting is offered and results in the passenger arriving within two/three/four hours of the scheduled arrival time for a type 1/2/3 flight, the compensation payable is halved.
This payment is strictly a compensation for the customer's inconvenience and does not replace or form a part of either of the following two compensation categories.
Although the wording of the regulation indicates that this payment is not relevant in the case of delays, the judgment of the European Court of Justice in joined cases C‑402/07 and C‑432/07, from 2007, suggests that the regulation must be interpreted as meaning that passengers whose flights are delayed may be treated, for the purposes of the application of the right to compensation, as passengers whose flights are cancelled and they may thus rely on the right to compensation laid down in Article 7 of the regulation where they suffer, on account of a flight delay, a loss of time equal to or in excess of three hours, that is, where they reach their final destination three hours or more after the arrival time originally scheduled by the air carrier.
The Airline is not obliged to provide Cash compensation in the case of "Extraordinary Circumstances" (Defined earlier in the document), according to Article 5, Paragraph 3.
€250, for a flight of less than 1500 km
€400, for flight within the EU of greater than 1500 km in distance, or any other flight of greater than 1500 km but less than 3500 km in distance
€600, for a flight not within EU of greater than 3500 km in distance where flight types are as defined in notes. Where rerouting is offered and results in the passenger arriving within two/three/four hours of the scheduled arrival time for a type 1/2/3 flight, the compensation payable is halved.
This payment is strictly a compensation for the customer's inconvenience and does not replace or form a part of either of the following two compensation categories.
Although the wording of the regulation indicates that this payment is not relevant in the case of delays, the judgment of the European Court of Justice in joined cases C‑402/07 and C‑432/07, from 2007, suggests that the regulation must be interpreted as meaning that passengers whose flights are delayed may be treated, for the purposes of the application of the right to compensation, as passengers whose flights are cancelled and they may thus rely on the right to compensation laid down in Article 7 of the regulation where they suffer, on account of a flight delay, a loss of time equal to or in excess of three hours, that is, where they reach their final destination three hours or more after the arrival time originally scheduled by the air carrier.
The Airline is not obliged to provide Cash compensation in the case of "Extraordinary Circumstances" (Defined earlier in the document), according to Article 5, Paragraph 3.
Aug 20, 2010, 1:39 pm
#8
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the judgment of the European Court of Justice in joined cases C‑402/07 and C‑432/07, from 2007, suggests that the regulation must be interpreted as meaning that passengers whose flights are delayed may be treated, for the purposes of the application of the right to compensation, as passengers whose flights are cancelled and they may thus rely on the right to compensation .
Johan
Aug 21, 2010, 1:14 am
#9
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It seems like the said company is making a healthy profit off of our misery. The director of EU claim has been on TV many times and it seems like his company is growing steadily.
Aug 21, 2010, 4:47 am
#10
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 154
I have always wondered what made those compensation recovery companies so popular. All they do is send an aggressively worded letter to the airline in exchange of a 27% cut of any potential payment. Nothing more than any individual could of himself. Templates of similar letters are freely available all over the net.
Aug 21, 2010, 5:00 am
#11
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 154
Were you given an explanation for the delay of the late incoming flight? That would be the decisive factor. As mentioned in another post, according the the NOV09 opinion of the ECJ, the defence of extraordinary circumstances is still available in cases of delays. If the AMS/DEL flight was delayed for reasons beyond KLM's control, your chances of obtaining compensation would be reduced to 0...
Aug 21, 2010, 6:05 am
#12
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no reason was given what so ever.
it occurred in summer season, so no severe weather situations on route between AMS-DEL.
also checked the flight data on flightstats.com. only changes in gates and dep/arr. times are noted in the logs.
it occurred in summer season, so no severe weather situations on route between AMS-DEL.
also checked the flight data on flightstats.com. only changes in gates and dep/arr. times are noted in the logs.
Aug 21, 2010, 6:47 am
#13
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I think it's an excellent service at reasonable cost. Nobody forces anyone not to file themselves.
Aug 22, 2010, 3:19 am
#14
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Johan
Aug 23, 2010, 6:23 am
#15
Join Date: Dec 2009
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The compensation in case of a delay does NOT appear to be a clear cut legal issue, regardless of the ECJ court case.
In Germany, Ryanair won a case in the district court by arguing that a technical issue comes under "exceptional circumstances".
http://www.businessandfinance.ie/new...sp?itemID=1605
In the UK, the high court has suspended ALL compensation for delays (regardless of the reason), with the issue referred back to ECJ:
http://www.abtn.co.uk/news/1814586-a...lays-suspended
In this case you could claim for any "reasonable care" you were forced to buy yourself - e.g. food & accom, as long as you have valid reciepts.
I guess you would not be able to claim the compensation unless you want to take the issue all the way to the ECJ.
In Germany, Ryanair won a case in the district court by arguing that a technical issue comes under "exceptional circumstances".
http://www.businessandfinance.ie/new...sp?itemID=1605
In the UK, the high court has suspended ALL compensation for delays (regardless of the reason), with the issue referred back to ECJ:
http://www.abtn.co.uk/news/1814586-a...lays-suspended
In this case you could claim for any "reasonable care" you were forced to buy yourself - e.g. food & accom, as long as you have valid reciepts.
I guess you would not be able to claim the compensation unless you want to take the issue all the way to the ECJ.
Last edited by 8420PR; Aug 25, 2010 at 2:53 pm