Why was the Flying Dutchman FFP called Flying Dutchman?
May 29, 2010, 4:30 pm
#1
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Why was the Flying Dutchman FFP called Flying Dutchman?
Why was KLM's frequent flier programme, before the advent of Flying Blue, called Flying Dutchman? I wonder, because old mariner legends concerning the ghost ship Flying Dutchman are not usually or necessarily associated with... good things. And generally, the sighting of the mythical Flying Dutchman is a sign of impending peril and can only be seen in foul weather (not something I would not to associate with an upcoming flight on a metal tube attached to metal wings filled with combustible fuel flying at 900kph at 30,000 meters over an ocean with a massive pressure differential relative to the external environment).
For example, the original legend has it that the namesake perished while rounding the infamous Cape of Good Hope (or was it Cape Horn?), but was later sighted by her sister ship as an apparent apparition, or ghost ship that quickly disappeared. A Dutch captain Fokke of the Dutch East India Company (VOC) was suspected of having made a deal with the devil, thus explaining how quickly he could sail from Amsterdam to Java, and making him a model for the fictitious Captain Van der Decken (and later Captain Sparrow of course). That captain was thought to curse the winds and damn himself to eternally roam the seas rather than admit defeat...
The only "positive" I can find in the story is the fact that Captain Fokke was able to travel so "quickly" (3 months to present-day Jakarta). Some marketing ploy? So... travel KLM and you will get to your destination fast and on time, but as a surcharge you'll have to sell your soul to Lucifer?
All forecasts of doom and tales of Judgement Day aside, I almost like the name. It at least has some element of history and travel in it. Much more inspiring than "Flying Blue" anyway, which pretty much has the inspiration equivalent to a hypermodern PR firm populated with 30-somethings wearing poorly tailored Italian suits, if that.
For example, the original legend has it that the namesake perished while rounding the infamous Cape of Good Hope (or was it Cape Horn?), but was later sighted by her sister ship as an apparent apparition, or ghost ship that quickly disappeared. A Dutch captain Fokke of the Dutch East India Company (VOC) was suspected of having made a deal with the devil, thus explaining how quickly he could sail from Amsterdam to Java, and making him a model for the fictitious Captain Van der Decken (and later Captain Sparrow of course). That captain was thought to curse the winds and damn himself to eternally roam the seas rather than admit defeat...
The only "positive" I can find in the story is the fact that Captain Fokke was able to travel so "quickly" (3 months to present-day Jakarta). Some marketing ploy? So... travel KLM and you will get to your destination fast and on time, but as a surcharge you'll have to sell your soul to Lucifer?
All forecasts of doom and tales of Judgement Day aside, I almost like the name. It at least has some element of history and travel in it. Much more inspiring than "Flying Blue" anyway, which pretty much has the inspiration equivalent to a hypermodern PR firm populated with 30-somethings wearing poorly tailored Italian suits, if that.
May 29, 2010, 11:19 pm
#2
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Why was KLM's frequent flier programme, before the advent of Flying Blue, called Flying Dutchman? I wonder, because old mariner legends concerning the ghost ship Flying Dutchman are not usually or necessarily associated with... good things. And generally, the sighting of the mythical Flying Dutchman is a sign of impending peril and can only be seen in foul weather (not something I would not to associate with an upcoming flight on a metal tube attached to metal wings filled with combustible fuel flying at 900kph at 30,000 meters over an ocean with a massive pressure differential relative to the external environment).
For example, the original legend has it that the namesake perished while rounding the infamous Cape of Good Hope (or was it Cape Horn?), but was later sighted by her sister ship as an apparent apparition, or ghost ship that quickly disappeared. A Dutch captain Fokke of the Dutch East India Company (VOC) was suspected of having made a deal with the devil, thus explaining how quickly he could sail from Amsterdam to Java, and making him a model for the fictitious Captain Van der Decken (and later Captain Sparrow of course). That captain was thought to curse the winds and damn himself to eternally roam the seas rather than admit defeat...
The only "positive" I can find in the story is the fact that Captain Fokke was able to travel so "quickly" (3 months to present-day Jakarta). Some marketing ploy? So... travel KLM and you will get to your destination fast and on time, but as a surcharge you'll have to sell your soul to Lucifer?
All forecasts of doom and tales of Judgement Day aside, I almost like the name. It at least has some element of history and travel in it. Much more inspiring than "Flying Blue" anyway, which pretty much has the inspiration equivalent to a hypermodern PR firm populated with 30-somethings wearing poorly tailored Italian suits, if that.
For example, the original legend has it that the namesake perished while rounding the infamous Cape of Good Hope (or was it Cape Horn?), but was later sighted by her sister ship as an apparent apparition, or ghost ship that quickly disappeared. A Dutch captain Fokke of the Dutch East India Company (VOC) was suspected of having made a deal with the devil, thus explaining how quickly he could sail from Amsterdam to Java, and making him a model for the fictitious Captain Van der Decken (and later Captain Sparrow of course). That captain was thought to curse the winds and damn himself to eternally roam the seas rather than admit defeat...
The only "positive" I can find in the story is the fact that Captain Fokke was able to travel so "quickly" (3 months to present-day Jakarta). Some marketing ploy? So... travel KLM and you will get to your destination fast and on time, but as a surcharge you'll have to sell your soul to Lucifer?
All forecasts of doom and tales of Judgement Day aside, I almost like the name. It at least has some element of history and travel in it. Much more inspiring than "Flying Blue" anyway, which pretty much has the inspiration equivalent to a hypermodern PR firm populated with 30-somethings wearing poorly tailored Italian suits, if that.
I guess it is simple because KLM is Dutch and flies. So they are Flying Dutchmen (and -women). And so are their Dutch passengers...
May 30, 2010, 1:32 am
#3
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Not forgetting the reference to Wagner's opera
The term flying Dutchman in Dutch became an amelioration ("geuzennaam": a Dutch term for a negative or derogatory name appropriated and reclaimed as a positive label of empowerment) so as to express the awe at conquering the skies (in stead of the seas) I guess
The term flying Dutchman in Dutch became an amelioration ("geuzennaam": a Dutch term for a negative or derogatory name appropriated and reclaimed as a positive label of empowerment) so as to express the awe at conquering the skies (in stead of the seas) I guess
May 30, 2010, 2:09 am
#4
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,527
Well, in all honesty, there are very few references to "Dutch" in the English vernacular that are not negative:
Dutch uncle: someone annoying who gives unrequested advice
Dutch courage: the "courage" one gets from drinking too much gin
Dutch act: suicide
Dutch comfort: cold comfort (things could always be worse)
Dutch defense: a sham defense
Dutch generosity: stinginess
Dutch headache: hangover
Dutch gold: an alloy of copper and zinc that tarnishes easily
Dutch widow: a prostitute
Dutch party: one where everyone pays their own expense or the host doesn't play host
Double Dutch: speaking in a way so as to not be able to be understood
(to be) In Dutch: in trouble, out of favor, in suspicion
IMO Flying Dutchman was chosen for the same reason we are being offered "forgotten vegetables" and "biological cheeses": the Dutch' infamous knack for self-overestimation and believing that they are better with their languages and their cultural understanding than they really are.
Dutch uncle: someone annoying who gives unrequested advice
Dutch courage: the "courage" one gets from drinking too much gin
Dutch act: suicide
Dutch comfort: cold comfort (things could always be worse)
Dutch defense: a sham defense
Dutch generosity: stinginess
Dutch headache: hangover
Dutch gold: an alloy of copper and zinc that tarnishes easily
Dutch widow: a prostitute
Dutch party: one where everyone pays their own expense or the host doesn't play host
Double Dutch: speaking in a way so as to not be able to be understood
(to be) In Dutch: in trouble, out of favor, in suspicion
IMO Flying Dutchman was chosen for the same reason we are being offered "forgotten vegetables" and "biological cheeses": the Dutch' infamous knack for self-overestimation and believing that they are better with their languages and their cultural understanding than they really are.
May 30, 2010, 2:42 am
#5
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According to Wikipedia:
My first thought when I saw the OP I was thinking of the steam train running back in Victorian Times and I actually thought the name was playing with the words flying and dutch...
The name Flying Dutchman has a convoluted history. In common with many steam and diesel engines such as the LNER A1's and BR class 55 Deltics, the Flying Dutchman was named after a famous racehorse, which had won both the Derby and St. Leger in 1849. The racehorse was in turn named after the famous Dutch Admiral Tromp.
May 30, 2010, 4:19 am
#6
Original Poster
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Not forgetting the reference to Wagner's opera
The term flying Dutchman in Dutch became an amelioration ("geuzennaam": a Dutch term for a negative or derogatory name appropriated and reclaimed as a positive label of empowerment) so as to express the awe at conquering the skies (in stead of the seas) I guess
The term flying Dutchman in Dutch became an amelioration ("geuzennaam": a Dutch term for a negative or derogatory name appropriated and reclaimed as a positive label of empowerment) so as to express the awe at conquering the skies (in stead of the seas) I guess
May 30, 2010, 5:35 am
#7
Join Date: Mar 2008
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IMO Flying Dutchman was chosen for the same reason we are being offered "forgotten vegetables" and "biological cheeses": the Dutch' infamous knack for self-overestimation and believing that they are better with their languages and their cultural understanding than they really are.
May 30, 2010, 6:46 am
#8
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May 30, 2010, 9:39 am
#10
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This I did not know. Any links to old advertisements?
But even so... legends of pacts with the devil and portending doom did not factor into the decision?
May 30, 2010, 9:48 am
#11
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http://www.retrolution.dk/images/wp/...man_poster.jpg
http://imagecache.allposters.com/ima...ne-Posters.jpg
http://www.urbannebula.nl/?datatype=...de%20hollander
May 30, 2010, 10:01 am
#12
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Brutal honesty: yes
directness: yes indeed
"boorish directness bordering on rudeness" never. the reputation in question is based on a reluctance to dissemble, not boorishness. Rudeness only applies if disingenuousness is a desirable trait. One of the reasons I have always delighted in my relationships with the Dutch, including two of my favorites bosses, is that one never need wonder what someone else is thinking. One always knows.
Many cultures will avoid clarity if there is a way to do so. That breeds confusion. Nobody is confused about his position with a stereotypical Dutchman.
I suspect most people who care much about the subject understand the slight duality in potential for imagery of Flying Dutchman. In this context there's no doubt what it means. It means I'll have good proper correct service in flight and I'll leave with another house!
May 30, 2010, 10:32 am
#13
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Johan
May 31, 2010, 8:19 am
#14
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Toch wordt ik als echte gezonde blonde Hollandse jongen over de hele wereld altijd met open armen ontvangen.
May 31, 2010, 4:11 pm
#15
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http://static.rnw.nl/migratie/www.ra...rch-redirected
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_467154.html