KLM / AMS disruptions due to cloud of volcanic ash [merged]

Old Apr 15, 10, 7:53 am
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Exclamation KLM / AMS disruptions due to cloud of volcanic ash [merged]

Geen KLM vliegverkeer Schiphol vanaf 19.00 uur

Vanwege de uitbarsting van de vulkaan Eyjafjallajokull in IJsland zijn er ernstige onvoorziene vluchtverstoringen van het vliegverkeer vanaf en naar Schiphol.
Vanaf 19.00u vertrekken er geen KLM-vluchten meer vanaf Schiphol. Vanaf 20.00u zullen er ook geen KLM-vluchten meer op Schiphol aankomen. Beide maatregelen gelden in ieder geval tot vannacht 02.00u (16 april).
Het is nog onzeker of er morgen (16 april) vliegverkeer vanaf en naar Schiphol mogelijk zal zijn.

Translation:

No KLM planes will be taking off after 19.00 hours and no KLM planes will be landing after 20.00 hours.
Unsure if there will be any operations tomorrow Friday 16 April.

Gajan
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Old Apr 15, 10, 10:28 am
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Originally Posted by Gajan View Post
Geen KLM vliegverkeer Schiphol vanaf 19.00 uur

Vanwege de uitbarsting van de vulkaan Eyjafjallajokull in IJsland zijn er ernstige onvoorziene vluchtverstoringen van het vliegverkeer vanaf en naar Schiphol.
Vanaf 19.00u vertrekken er geen KLM-vluchten meer vanaf Schiphol. Vanaf 20.00u zullen er ook geen KLM-vluchten meer op Schiphol aankomen. Beide maatregelen gelden in ieder geval tot vannacht 02.00u (16 april).
Het is nog onzeker of er morgen (16 april) vliegverkeer vanaf en naar Schiphol mogelijk zal zijn.

Translation:

No KLM planes will be taking off after 19.00 hours and no KLM planes will be landing after 20.00 hours.
Unsure if there will be any operations tomorrow Friday 16 April.

Gajan
It's been expanded:

Amsterdam Airport Schiphol
No departures out of Amsterdam as of 18:00 hours local time on 15 April until 08:00 hours local time on 16 April.
No arrivals into Amsterdam as of 18:00 hours local time on 15 April until 08:00 hours local time on 16 Apr.
This situation will stay in place at least until 08:00 hours local time on 16 April.
In effect, this implies that all flights scheduled to depart/arrive from/to Amsterdam during this period will be either cancelled or delayed.
Cheers,

GenevaFlyer
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Old Apr 15, 10, 10:57 am
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KL seems to be slow to cancel their flights. Their HKG is still listed as flying tonight!!!

Whilst BA, VS etc have zeroed out all inventory tomorrow, KL is still selling flights... weird!

Anyways - due to fly KL AMS-LAX tomorrow - doubtful it will fly given the clouds projected path.
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Old Apr 15, 10, 11:08 am
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Volcanic Eruption - KLM invents new rebooking rules!

As long as I can remember the principle during irrops, with any airline, has always been that customers will be rebooked on the the next available flight that has spare seats.

KLM have just announced that for today's incident they have changed the rules... passengers will not be rebooked unless seats are available in their original booking class.

I've already heard from someone who has been told that the earliest they can fly is in about a week's time.

I know that today has been exceptional... but can KLM really get away with this?

http://www.travelio.net/volcanic-eru...k-options.html
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Old Apr 15, 10, 11:47 am
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I had a quasi-similar situation with LX: my flight got cancelled due to a strike and, although I had a business upgrade ticket I was refused rebooking with a seat in business (lots of empty seats) because none was available for booking in J. Mind you, next day at the airport, a very nice LX agent decided that this was stupid and she put me at in C after all. Thus, it seems to me a new practice of more than one airline.
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Old Apr 15, 10, 12:04 pm
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Originally Posted by KLouis View Post
I had a quasi-similar situation with LX: my flight got cancelled due to a strike and, although I had a business upgrade ticket I was refused rebooking with a seat in business (lots of empty seats) because none was available for booking in J. Mind you, next day at the airport, a very nice LX agent decided that this was stupid and she put me at in C after all. Thus, it seems to me a new practice of more than one airline.
Well, at least you would have got on the flight...

What KLM is doing here is refusing to carry people AT ALL unless there are seats in the same booking class. BOOKING class, not CABIN class. If you're booked in V Class and they only have seats in Q Class then they won't let you travel.
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Old Apr 15, 10, 12:11 pm
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Originally Posted by Aviatrix View Post
Well, at least you would have got on the flight...

What KLM is doing here is refusing to carry people AT ALL unless there are seats in the same booking class. BOOKING class, not CABIN class. If you're booked in V Class and they only have seats in Q Class then they won't let you travel.
For your information, J and C are two different BOOKING classes in the BUSINESS CLASS CABIN, just like Q and V and two different BOOKING classes int he ECONOMY CLASS CABIN, so KLouis clearly understood what you were saying and replied.

This is a sticky situation. EU261/2004 clearly states that in the event of a cancellation (for any reason), the airline must rebook the passenger on the first available flight in comparable conditions where seats are available. It makes no reference to booking classes. In fact, the rules state that if the airline upgrades a passenger it cannot ask for money. So, we know that traditionally "upgrade" means from economy to business or business to first. In this case, would V to Q be an upgrade?
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Old Apr 15, 10, 12:12 pm
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Im on hold @ KLM for the past 45 minutes... I will try to move tomorrows flight to saturday. Guess that has more chances of succeeding. And if even that falls through..ouf.
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Old Apr 15, 10, 12:16 pm
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Originally Posted by Xandrios View Post
Im on hold @ KLM for the past 45 minutes... I will try to move tomorrows flight to saturday. Guess that has more chances of succeeding. And if even that falls through..ouf.
Good luck - despite their website saying anyflights between 14-18 APR can be moved - I had a different experience.

On hold for 1.5 hours, get through to the phone dragon. I ask if I can speak english, she says yes.

Ask to change my flight as low likelyhood it will go at 10am tomorrow and would like to get on Saturdays flight before it gets sold out.

Get told "If I can speak english, surely I can also read it"!!!!!!

Then she says if I can read English then I should be able to see it says NORTHERN EUROPE disruptions.

She then says all KL flights that are affected will be displayed as cancelled. I questioned this as Schiphol is closed, yet the KL site says HKG is flying tonight (go figure). She then tells me they will not update flights tonight to cancelled as it is very obvious they are cancelled as the airprot is closed!!!!

Ergh.... Anyways I asked to speak to a supervisor as she was saying one thing yet the website says another and she said "furthermore there is nothing else left to say with you"... I then get hung up on!

...... is this usual KL service? I am only new to the Netherlands, but this is disgraceful service and I have NEVER experienced anything like this from any other airline.
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Old Apr 15, 10, 12:44 pm
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Originally Posted by AN_Boy View Post
Ergh.... Anyways I asked to speak to a supervisor as she was saying one thing yet the website says another and she said "furthermore there is nothing else left to say with you"... I then get hung up on!

...... is this usual KL service? I am only new to the Netherlands, but this is disgraceful service and I have NEVER experienced anything like this from any other airline.
I wouldn't say this applies to ALL KLM staff by any means... but there seems to be a tendency for KLM staff to turn rude when they are under stress.

For example... a few weeks ago we were informed of a very long flight delay at D6. As we left to go back to the lounge my husband reminded the gate agent, very politely, that they should be providing refreshments to those who didn't have that option... and got screamed at! It seemed to me that she had just... lost it. And I've seen this kind of behaviour before.
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Old Apr 15, 10, 2:13 pm
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Maybe the options are less negative and even positive flexible? On KLM.com:

Re-book options
If you travel to, from or via Amsterdam Airport Schiphol, between 14 April and 18 April 2010, we offer the following options:

1. Change of travel dates
You may change flight dates for travel to, from or via Amsterdam Airport Schiphol. Outbound travel should occur no later than 31 May 2010. The original required duration of your stay may be unchanged.

The following conditions apply:

You may change one outbound and one inbound flight free of charge.
You may only change your flight dates to alternate flight dates, if available in the same booking class.
Changing flight dates and re-issuing of tickets must be done by the end of the day on Friday, 30 April 2010.
You may change to alternate flights of AIR FRANCE, KLM and/or Delta only.


We may have changed your flight dates for you. Log on to Manage my Booking to view your flight details. If your flight dates have not been changed, you can change your flight dates free of cost if you have a fully flexible ticket.

If you do not have a fully flexible ticket, please contact us about changing your flight.

Go to Manage my Booking
Contact us

2. Change of destination
You may use the full value of your existing tickets for the purchase of new tickets at the same or a higher AIR FRANCE, KLM and/or Delta fare.

Re-booking and re-issuing of tickets must be done by the end of the day on Friday, 30 April 2010. To change your destination, please contact us.

Contact us
3. Refunds
If your flight was cancelled or delayed more than 5 hours, you may request a full refund. You can apply for a refund by contacting us, or your travel agent.

Contact us
Check the current arrival and departure times of our flights
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Old Apr 15, 10, 3:18 pm
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Originally Posted by Eric.k View Post
Maybe the options are less negative and even positive flexible?
Not really. What KLM is saying is basically:

KLM: If you're travelling through/to/from Schiphol, you might be ....ed.
Nothing really new here.

KLM: If you have a flexible ticket, you can change the ticket as through MMB.
Nothing new either, this is just SOP.

KLM: If you don't have a flexible ticket, go ahead and call us.
What this means is: Until we have actually cancelled your flight all we might be offering is to rebook you onto another flight and you'll have to pay the difference between your ticket and the new ticket.
If you're in one of the discounted fare buckets, that can easily be a 400EUR difference for a European flight.

There is no real change to normal procedures except that they might just ask for the difference to the new ticket instead of asking for the whole fee. I'm saying might as I have no official confirmation that they only ask for the difference instead of the full fare, all I have was a talk with one person from customer service.

KLM: Once we have actually cancelled your flight (and mind us, we're either very very very early with cancelling flights for load management reasons or very, very late with cancelling flights for operational reasons) we will be offering to rebook you onto another flight _AS LONG_ as this flight still has seats available in the same fare bucket as the original ticket.
This is actually the big difference to normal procedures. EU regulations say that they will have to put you on the next available flight to your destination. If it means bumping someone to first so they can fly you out in economy, so be it.
What they are saying however is: We will not put you on the next available flight to your destination. Instead we will put you on the next flight to your destination with available seating in your fare bucket.
If you're traveling on N or so, it might mean that your next flight is leaving in mid-June. ;-/

I guess the intention was: If your flight is cancelled we'll do our utmost to carry you to your destination as soon as possible and if it's not yet cancelled we're happy to rebook you on another flight as long as the fare bucket is still available even if you are not travelling on a flexible ticket.

That would be an application of leniency and would actually be customer friendly. What they wrote however is even more limiting than the normal transportation rules.
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Old Apr 16, 10, 12:13 am
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Originally Posted by AN_Boy View Post
...... is this usual KL service? I am only new to the Netherlands, but this is disgraceful service and I have NEVER experienced anything like this from any other airline.
Pretty much par for the course by Dutch standards, I'm afraid.

If the pax interviewed on Dutch TV program Nova yesterday are to be believed, the lucky ones were fobbed off with a 5 meal voucher. The rest were told to sort out their own problems and sent packing, KL simply closed all desks and counters.

In constrast, Danish and Swedish TV reported from Arlanda and Kastrup that SK had accommodated pax in hotels, laid on coaches, etc. There was one exception, a Danish lady interviewed by telephone was still stuck at the airport and waiting for assistance this morning. Which airport? You guessed it . . . . AMS!

Johan
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Old Apr 16, 10, 1:22 am
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In the past I have never ever received a hotel booking by KLM when I got stuck at Schiphol airport, even being Platinum. Always had to book one myself and claim the bill to KLM. Always got reimbursed though.

But this very rude attitude (in combination with April changes of course) made me change from Skyteam to Star Alliance. Now flying Swiss and Lufthansa, got stuck plenty of times in FRA and ZRH, got hotel night without asking.

For this week's disruptions, following is clear:

KLM has the obligation to reimburse the ticket price or rebook you on the earliest available alternative flight, no matter in which booking class you are booked (same cabin class though).

Only in case you want to rebook your (unflexible) ticket to a later date, which KLM is not obliged to do, they can apply whatever rule they want, such as rebooking in the same booking class.
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Old Apr 16, 10, 1:48 am
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Update: airspace closed until 14.00 hours

Luchtruim Schiphol blijft gesloten tot 14.00 uur.

In vervolg delen wij u mede dat het luchtruim van Schiphol gesloten blijft tot 14.00 uur.
Dit betekent dat er in die periode geen vliegverkeer mogelijk is vanaf en naar Schiphol.
Als gevolg hiervan zullen onderstaande intercontinentale vluchten, welke zouden aankomen op 16apr 2010 na 14.00 uur, geannuleerd worden.
KL 686 Mexico ( MEX), KL 744 Lima (LIM), KL 868 Osaka (KIX) en KL 758 Panama (PTY)
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