YVR Cockroach

Is that the main, or even major reason? I've read it was because of Donald Burr's ill-fated decision to take PE TATL.

Seat13c

My mistake. That, also, was before my time of spending lots of time in tight little aircraft seats. Terminal A isn't too much better that what's been discribed to me about the North Terminal. Both may not be too far from representing our fine state.

Dieuwer

Farecast is a joke. It seems you have to do the opposite of what they advice. Besides, farecast only does two months out; and that's not good enough.

And where are the fare buckets on farecast? Seat maps analysis?

BearX220

PE never made it out of the North Terminal, which was the original Newark Airport concourse, built in the postwar boom years. Here's some memory lane stuff:

http://oldterminals.topcities.com/newark.html

As for the role AA played in PE's unraveling -- it was of course not the only factor, but the decisive one. When Don Burr bought his one 747 and put it on the EWR-LGW shuttle at $149 each way, it was no harm to the company and good fun. I rode it several times, it was always crammed, and everyone -- both pax and airline -- thought they were getting away with something.

When Don bought a big bunch more used 747s (for no better strategic reason than "people like to ride in 747s, don't they?" -- this was a period when US airlines had finally realized the 747 was a wrong-size plane for domestic use and pretty much shed them), and deployed them not only on EWR-BRU but EWR-LAX several times daily @ $99, they slid into trouble -- partly because they could not stimulate enough demand, partly because the majors, AA chief among them, finally began to view PE as a threat to their bread and butter.

An ill-advised simultaneous "big bang" merger with (the old) Frontier and Provincetown-Boston Airline accelerated the misery; I have a timetable from that (brief) era, with a two-hub EWR + DEN route map on the back cover that looked like a spilled bowl of pasta. System capacity got way out ahead of operational ability and revenue management smarts, and that's when AA moved in for the kill by undercutting PE pricing.

For a fascinating account of this debacle read "Hard Landing" by Thomas Petzinger, former Wall Street Journal reporter.

Up until the Valentine's Day Massacre last year I saw echoes of the PE trajectory in B6: messianic / eccentric leadership, feckless growth, etc. I think grown-ups have prevailed lately, though, and I'm a little more optimistic about their chances.

Dieuwer

Perhaps it is not just a matter of yield management, but also a matter of schedule. It seems to me that a lot of flight from BOS to the west coast depart ungodly early, whereas flight ex-West coast depart ungodly late.

I was tempted to fly BOS-OAK on a sunday, but there is no way I can be at the airport at 7 AM in the morning. The T does not run before 8! And taxicabs are just too expensive.

nerd

Need to go to Chicago the weekend of June 7th. Surprisingly, there's one carrier on the nonstop NYC-CHI that *is* more expensive than jetBlue!

AA - 253
DL - 253
UA - 253
B6 - 393
CO - 463

Mimi Imferst

And another acronym for us to remember: OTSS

nerd

Need to go to Chicago for a weekend in the middle of September:

DL - $298
AA - $298
UA - $298
CO - $318
B6 - $367

Sadly, the legacies offer me a great choice of schedules, miles, and $70 more in my pocket.

SkaterJasp

Because jetBlue offer a completely different product than the legacy that it creates its own little supply and demand for the jetBlue experience. People are willing to pay more for more legroom and entertainment over the legacy. People are also willing to pay more to not be treated like second class citizens by the legacy carrier also. There are a ton of reason why jetBlue is able to get away with charging a lot more for their flights and still leave the gate with near full planes. I personally think that the airline industry today is at a point where LCC are providing the higher level of service and more amenities inflight than their older legacy carrier counter parts.

nsx

I don't believe that very many customers are willing to pay a significant (say, more than $40) price premium for JetBlue over other airlines. Cases where JetBlue charges more may be artifacts of yield management, such as when a high price on a short hop is used as a way to "reserve" seats for future purchases by passengers connecting to profitable long-haul flights.

If you see a price that's out of line with the competition, you'd be doing yourself and JetBlue a favor by letting them know, with specifics.

nerd

That's marketing Kool-Aid. jetBlue gets me from point A to point B.

Well, clearly some are not. It's a 2 hour flight. At 6' 2" I can sit in 31" of coach if I need to.

Did AA's MRTC experiment work?

Again, they both get me from point A to point B, and I really don't pay attention to what class "citizen" they treat me like. In the end, they're not in the business of making me feel special. They're in business to take me places.

MrDave

From a thread I started a year ago:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showt...633&highlight=

-Dave

somedude24

Using one specific route with specific dates is never a good sampling strategy for airfares. The market sets the price, and the airlines compete for travelers. If jetBlue was consistently more expensive, and travelers were not willing to pay more (which is probably the case), then jetBlue would not be in business. And, to offer a counter-example, I am booking (and have been watching) a Tuesday in August from SFO-JFK. Virgin America and JetBlue seem to jockey up and down for the lowest fare. American occasionally matches on a flight or two. United and Delta (which also fly into JFK) and Continental (which flies into EWR) have consistently been much higher.

jetBlueNYFL

Let's say you went with AA or UA, since they are the lowest prices and have hubs in ORD. CO is out, because it is clearly from EWR, and that's a whole different ball game than JFK/LGA pricing. Plus, it's only $20. DL can slide, but I don't even think it's mainline, is it?

So, AA/UA at $298 vs. B6 at $367 = $69 price difference. If you check just one bag on AA or UA (which most people do), you're already at $328, already a $39 price difference. Is the B6 experience worth 39 bucks to you? That's for you to decide. For me, I know it is considering the IFE, legroom, free snacks, and much more personal/friendly crew. Also, I know that if my B6 fare drops, I am entitled to the full difference in the form of a credit; something the others can't do for me. I know that if my plans change, it will cost me $100+ as opposed to $150+. Finally, I know that I will have an easier time redeeming my TB points.

With RASM up and LF not signifigantly down year over year last month, it seems people are in fact willing to pay the premium for B6.

Plus, let's not forget that before jetBlue entered this market, AA/UA would rape even their best customers with astronomical fares and crazy Sat. night restrictions, which UA is reinstating. Oh, how easily we forget...the JetBlue and Southwest effect!

And did you price out the fare with the current $10/10% off each way promo???

Reconsider, it might be worth spending the few bucks on B6 upfront.

bmg42000

B6 should emphasize the fact that they do not charge for the first piece of luggage. Its easy to forget that when you are pricing AA or United or Usair or NWA or ...