Idea: Alliance with Icelandair

Old Nov 28, 07, 7:24 pm
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Idea: Alliance with Icelandair

What does everyone here think about Jetblue possibly alligning with Icelandair?

The airline does fly non-stop from Reykjavik to three key Jetblue cities (JFK, Boston, and Orlando).

They are not in any major alliance with ANY airline whatsoever.

They are not an LCC but do often claim to have cheaper fares to Europe.

Their Keflavik airport hub is efficient from what i've heard. Other destinations from there include London-Heathrow, Glasgow, Paris, Gothenburg, Copenhagen, Amsterdamn, Barcelona, Helsinki, Madrid, Munich, Olso, Mancheser UK, Stockholm, and Milan.
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Old Nov 28, 07, 8:21 pm
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That's an alliance that would possibly work well. I would not say there are no alliances with ANY airline...don't forget Cape Air. Ok, it's not international...but it's still a code share/alliance, nonetheless. And, there is something with Aer Lingus, although I'm not sure that it's a true alliance.

I would LOVE to see an alliance/code share with El Al. Especially with DL starting JFK-TLV and those two carriers ending theirs, jetBlue would fit in perfectly.
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Old Nov 28, 07, 8:55 pm
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Unless I missed something, IcelandAir flies from SFB, not MCO...so that wouldn't work.
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Old Nov 28, 07, 9:33 pm
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These match-ups make sense as far as my limited knowledge of the logistics goes. Unhitched airlines looking for a larger revenue pool to feed each other. El Al and Icelandair among others have been mentioned in the rumour mill, but what hasn't been mentioned(at least not recently) was the continued pursuit of these agreements by B6 brass.

Quite possibly, the recent expansion of the GDS ticket-selling may have proven to be a less complicated and cheaper way to meet their growth numbers and certainly, the floundering of the Aer Lingus partnership, however superficial it was intended, displays a change of approach or thought at the top. If I recall, the loudest audible voice on the alliance front came from Neeleman and I'm not sure how many backers it had even then.

Can LCC's find a way to create their own alliance system or is that con=unterproductive to the business model of what a LCC is?

I still think that, as a NYC airline, the opportunity for a large increase in customer base exists by the addition of these alliances and think they could be mutually beneficial.
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Old Nov 29, 07, 5:55 pm
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Originally Posted by Mimi Imferst View Post
the floundering of the Aer Lingus partnership
I had meant to ask about this - just what did that codeshare get for people? Somehow I don't think EI metal would yield TrueBlue points. Please forgive my lack of search; just curious.

Also re: Icelandair, this has been mentioned in the CO forum too...they don't seem to share with anyone, and while Iceland doesn't exactly enjoy the same tourism glow that Orlando does, plenty of people do go there.
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Old Nov 29, 07, 6:13 pm
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Rumor around the flight departments is that Trans Atlantic carriers are holding back a possible alliance because of the lack of a first or business class. They have reserves about putting a customer from one of their flights, in business or first class and paying several thousand dollars, into our coach only cabin. I'm betting that there is an element of truth to it because it makes perfect sense. I'm willing to bet almost every frequent flyer on here would hate to go from first class on El Al to coach on ours.
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Old Nov 29, 07, 8:48 pm
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Originally Posted by JetBlueFA View Post
Rumor around the flight departments is that Trans Atlantic carriers are holding back a possible alliance because of the lack of a first or business class.

Lets hope that doesn't mean what I think it means
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Old Nov 30, 07, 5:10 am
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Originally Posted by JetBlueFA View Post
Rumor around the flight departments is that Trans Atlantic carriers are holding back a possible alliance because of the lack of a first or business class. They have reserves about putting a customer from one of their flights, in business or first class and paying several thousand dollars, into our coach only cabin. I'm betting that there is an element of truth to it because it makes perfect sense. I'm willing to bet almost every frequent flyer on here would hate to go from first class on El Al to coach on ours.
You have to explain to the customer that the majority of the ticket price is the leg of the transatlantic price.

For example lets take a route TLV-JFK on El Al and then transferring to JFK-PBI on B6

You are getting a better coach product than other legacy carriers and a highly regarded first product for the longer flight!!!

The problem comes if another airline such as continental or delta can offer first all the way from a transatlantic destination such as TLV for a lower price and other conveniences (no switching terminals, etc.)
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Old Nov 30, 07, 9:04 pm
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Another issue that comes up in alliances (SkyTeam springs to mind) is that you'll have a lot of B6 fliers trying to redeem points for the F trip on the other carrier, while the partner can't redeem for F on B6. This came up in SkyTeam when all the US-based carrier FF members started redeeming like crazy for the F seats on KE and AF. Even the higher redemption prices didn't deter the passengers, and AF/KE basically ran out of seats with nothing to show for it for their loyal passengers.

LY has partnerships with several carriers, including DL and AA, so they aren't so alone right now as to need B6.

As to the longer flight in F thought, for Icelandair and Aer Lingus the JFK-West Coast flight would be almost as long as the KEF/DUB/SNN-JFK flight. And S. Florida isn't all that much closer. Definitely not enough to justify a through flight on a F/J ticket for the partner.
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Old Dec 1, 07, 11:38 am
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Originally Posted by adambisi View Post
You have to explain to the customer that the majority of the ticket price is the leg of the transatlantic price.

For example lets take a route TLV-JFK on El Al and then transferring to JFK-PBI on B6

You are getting a better coach product than other legacy carriers and a highly regarded first product for the longer flight!!!

The problem comes if another airline such as continental or delta can offer first all the way from a transatlantic destination such as TLV for a lower price and other conveniences (no switching terminals, etc.)
You're right, but let's keep in mind that (IMO - and it is pretty true from any angle), jetBlue offers the best product/service for a flight like JFK-PBI. Obviously in coach...but even compared to domestic F (Unless, of course, you were on AA 767 transcon in F). "Coach" on B6 A320 is nicer than F on DL MD80 any day of the week. Even, IF the customer wanted more space, give them 2 seats!
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Old Dec 1, 07, 3:36 pm
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Originally Posted by jetBlueNYFL View Post
"Coach" on B6 A320 is nicer than F on DL MD80 any day of the week.

How so? DL has 1-3" more pitch and 1.8" wider seats. IFE is better on B6, for those who care about that on a 2 hour flight, but that hardly makes it a better product "any day of the week."

Do you also give them drink chits to make up for the lack of free drinks in Y?

I think that there are a lot of things that go in to the idea of an F ticket, especially on long-haul trips across oceans. Just having legroom or IFE or free drinks or any other piece doesn't make a F experience, and that would make this very difficult.
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Old Dec 1, 07, 9:05 pm
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Imagine the outrage of some F class pax who found out they paid F and are being put on a regional jet for the domestic US leg. JetBlue certainly would be a better product in this scenario!

I know many people who use the Icelandair flight to JFK and connect to B6 at JFK. Most of the year it is the only way to get down to S. Florida without overnighting enroute or driving from Sanford/Orlando.
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Old Dec 1, 07, 9:16 pm
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Lack of a F product is a good point. Any ideas about what Jetblue would be thinking of to compensate, without moving to a F/Y config(which I can't imagine happening)? Where there's a will, there's a way. Shortly after I opened my mouth i.e. "the floundering of the Aer Lingus partnership" I began hearing talk of Aer Lingus again as in they are still in negociations.

IIRC, the agreement was to simply post a link on each other's website(which is still non-existent) to lure the online booker to each others sites but that the connection would end there. With all these negociations, can we expect something a little more beefed up? Anyone have any insight?

With the move to terminal 5 and Jetblue's desire to keep 6 out of "enemy" hands, opportunities abound for the extra space. I, more than anyone, would love to see 6 ground to pieces but it may still have some strategic use left in it. Besides Aer Lingus and Icelandair (El AL already partners with DL in the NY area) what other airlines make good candidates for a codeshare/agreement with Jetblue?

Last edited by Mimi Imferst; Dec 1, 07 at 9:25 pm Reason: factual correction
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Old Dec 1, 07, 10:07 pm
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Originally Posted by sbm12 View Post
How so? DL has 1-3" more pitch and 1.8" wider seats. IFE is better on B6, for those who care about that on a 2 hour flight, but that hardly makes it a better product "any day of the week."

Do you also give them drink chits to make up for the lack of free drinks in Y?

I think that there are a lot of things that go in to the idea of an F ticket, especially on long-haul trips across oceans. Just having legroom or IFE or free drinks or any other piece doesn't make a F experience, and that would make this very difficult.
Well, IFE might not be that important to some on a 2-hour flight, but a route like JFK-PBI is airborne for about 2:30 (+/- a few minutes) plus it can be HOURS on the ground departing JFK due to the traffic, weather, etc. So, IFE on a flight to FL actually does make a difference most of the time.

And same goes for the mere 1-3" and 1.8" wider seat in F with DL's MD80...maybe it makes a difference on a longer flight, and even that is not much, but on a flight to FL, they can have their 2 inches for the price you have to pay to get it, unless you have status.
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Old Dec 2, 07, 7:29 am
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Originally Posted by mia_marlin View Post
Imagine the outrage of some F class pax who found out they paid F and are being put on a regional jet for the domestic US leg. JetBlue certainly would be a better product in this scenario!
I mostly agree with you. The trick is awareness during the booking process, and some agents will tell the pax that the one segment is only available in Y, so that covers some of the problem. Most passengers generally assume that Y=Y so it matters less if you're on a CO ERJ with 31" pitch or a B6 A320 with 36" pitch because most people don't know the difference until they're already on the plane.

Originally Posted by jetBlueNYFL View Post
Well, IFE might not be that important to some on a 2-hour flight, but a route like JFK-PBI is airborne for about 2:30 (+/- a few minutes) plus it can be HOURS on the ground departing JFK due to the traffic, weather, etc. So, IFE on a flight to FL actually does make a difference most of the time.

And same goes for the mere 1-3" and 1.8" wider seat in F with DL's MD80...maybe it makes a difference on a longer flight, and even that is not much, but on a flight to FL, they can have their 2 inches for the price you have to pay to get it, unless you have status.
I wasn't suggesting that anyone pay for the F seat on the MD80. I was just pointing out that there are some tangible benefits that it provides. And there are a lot of people who do pay for F seats on NYC-Florida routes, as they are pretty close in price to Y fares - usually only $30-50 more. Folks who are buying the discount seats may not care, but someone who wants an F seat actually generally wants an F seat, not just a good Y seat. Whether they're making a wise decision or not isn't really something that we can decide for the (I'd never pay for an F seat to FL either, FWIW).

But the biggest issue with the lack of F cabin on B6 for alliances is that the other partner(s) need to feel whole in terms of earning and redemption within the group. AF and KE stopped redemptions of their F product by partners because the partners could not offer anything comparable, thereby putting KE/AF at a significant disadvantage. B6 would be doing the same thing to any partner they team up with. I'm not saying that it precludes a partnership, but it makes it more difficult. In the same way a passenger would be disappointed to come off a TATL J flight and end up in CO Y on an ERJ, imagine coming off a spacious B6 flight and then having to sit in Y on Aer Lingus. It is arguably just as bad based on the comments made that the minor extra space isn't really all that big a deal.

Oh, and adding partners would likely require them to copmletely rework the TrueBlue program and the way rewards are issued, unless a TATL/partner reward will cost the same number of points as a B6 reward. Otherwise how do you save the extra points for the TATL/partner reward since the TrueBlue reward is automatically issued.

I'd love to see it happen, as I think it would increase the value of the TrueBlue program and help B6 add more traffic, but I'm not betting on a significant strategic alliance anytime soon.
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