jfk-buf: best view
 

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I'm flying from jfk to buf. I would like to have a good view over Manhatten. Suppose it depends on the wind, but at what side of the plane should I sit for the best chances of a good view?

Thanks in advance!

Well, its been a little more than a year since my last run to BUF but IIRC, left side going up and the right side coming down. But like I said, its been a while on that route. My co-worker is doing the BUF run for my office and he couldn't tell you (he always takes the isle seats).

I would agree...left side northbound and right side on the return.

However, don't really count on a view unless you get lucky. LGA is where you get the nice NYC views.

By far the best thing about flying into and out of LGA is the view.

Every once in a while I will get a good view of the skyline going to EWR. Its rare though...you'll have to be coming in from the north.

For those who know the North Jersey area, its the route that goes along 208 to 4 and then hangs a right at Rt17, goes over the meadowlands, then fallowing the turnpike into EWR (speaking roughly, ofcourse as to that's the general area the flights fallow. It was fun growing up under that flight pattern). I've taken paticular several times and I've seen great views of Manhattan, the office building my dad use to work in, Nabisco, and Giants Stadium.

UM! The convenience factor has to be a very close second. No? Taxi from Terminal to Midtown East in 20 minutes for $20.00 - $25.00, I'd have to say that beats even the view.

While that's true, I connect at LGA far more often than I go into the city, but you're definitely right. ;)

What a terrible airport to connect through, there is virtually no food inside of security (except at the Delta and the US Airways Terminals). The Main Terminal has to be about the most depressing place. At least they spruced up Reagan National but the Main Terminal at LaGuardia is just dreadful.

If you're flying Delta from Boston you have to switch terminals. If you're flying AA you're flying on RJ's to / from Boston, if you're flying US Airways you're most likely flying RJ's on your connecting flights outward.

If I were flying from Boston to say Omaha or Jacksonville I'd definitely prefer to connect in, ugh, I don't know, people always ask me where I like to connect and I just don't like to connect, life is too short (and my weekends are way too short).

I'm usually connecting on US Air, so there is decent food.

I have much better luck with RJ's through LGA than I do with B6 through JFK, where you can sit on the tarmac for an hour waiting to takeoff. Having the shuttle at LGA to BOS is a big plus, too. Never a long wait for the next flight and if you get in early, you can hop on the earlier one. Free booze on the shuttle, too. :)

If you have good luck with US Airways you must have some secret I don't have. The US Airways Shuttle is fantastic, no question about it. US Airways treats the Shuttle like its their golden child. But the rest of Doug Parker's empire leaves me a little troubled sometimes. Do you find that you really don't have much difficulty with US Airways? Have you ever tried to communicate with anybody at Consumer Affairs in Tempe? I haven't had such good luck with them recently.

Oh US is a terrible airline. Don't get me wrong. My preference is to connect on UA through ORD. I do this most of the time.

But for me US is still better than B6 because I find JFK to be horrible. I'll often connect through DCA (another fun airport to land at if on the river approach) as well. PIT sometimes, but the times usually don't work. And I avoid PHL if I can. I have terrible luck with PHL.

In terms of communicating with them, I use the Chairman's Preferred number which gets me through pretty quickly, so I haven't had too many problems.

JFK isn't bad in the morning and early afternoons, its the international push peak period (4:45PM - 9:00PM) that it becomes horrendous. Delta is alot to blame, those DASH 8's flying to and from JFK and Hartford / Philadelphia serve NO purpose other than to clog up the airspace and cause problems for jetBlue, even at Delta's own expense.

Getting out of Newark or JFK in the evening is no small accomplishment, its created alot of problems for those of us that live here, and I believe Delta needs to drop some of those DASH 8's and focus on their own business and not on constantly trying to intentionally turn JFK into the ATC nightmare LaGuardia used to be.

Yeah, it just got to the point that every time I had to connect through JFK I was delayed at least an hour. The B6 direct BOS-CMH-BOS is great, but with one a day, it just isn't practical for me most of the time. Connecting through JFK got old quick.

US is no great shakes, but a quick hop to DCA or LGA and then the shuttle up to BOS is quite quick (the shuttles can also be delayed, but they try pretty hard to get those suckers moving.. plus with one every hour there are a lot to choose from).

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. All things equal, if I had to fly BOS-CMH regularly I'd try to go for the Delta, American, and jetBlue nonstops. If Delta had the best schedule in one direction and jetBlue had the best schedule in the other direction that is what I'd do to fly nonstop.

You really can't fault jetBlue for the difficulty in making afternoon connections in New York, you have to consider that JFK isn't designed to be a domestic hub. jetBlue isn't going to turn away connecting revenue that may otherwise fill unsold capacity however I don't think the BOS-JFK and JFK-CMH routes were introduced with the hopes of capturing alot of domestic connecting traffic. Just my guess on the subject.

Sorry guys I haveto disagree and honestly I'm not being difficult. If you are flying from BUF - JFK you in all probably want to sit on the left side of the aircraft as this will increase your chances off seeing Manhatten. Please let me explain. The flight from BUF is approximately 1 hour in duration and is flown at 23000 ft. The routing takes you south south west over hancock VOR (a navigation beacon) and as you get closer to NY you will be routed onto what we call a STAR. A STAR is a terminal area arrival route and should be thought off as a highway in the sky off ramp. This routing will take you down the west side of the Hudson river towards Stewart Newburgh where you will make a left descending turn towards LGA VOR (the navigation beacon sits right next to Rikers Island. I hope that you guys are still with me here. As you descend towards LGA at 19000 feet the pilots will be handed off to by NY center control to NY approach control. The NY approach controller owns the airspace around JFK, LGA and EWR. Remember you are still west of LGA and Manhatten at this point. It really doesn't matter which runway they are landing on as the traffic patterns tend to be consistent. As you approach LGA the new NY approach controller will turn you south and further descend you to intermediate altitudes of 16,000, 13,000 8000 etc until they get you down and into the approach traffic flow. It is in this descending south turn that will afford you the best view of Manhatten, although it will be brief. Manhatten will be on your left. On departure I would also recommend the left side as you will always make a climbing left turn if going to upstate NY but in this case you will see very little. The arrivals and departures in and out of LGA are much better.

The problem with the directs is that they're 1) expensive and 2) few and far between. The Delta evening flight is often $400 on a Thursday. Compare that to about $120-$150 I usually find on UA or US to connect.

The main problem though is that it leaves too damn early, like at 5pm. I need to get later, like 7 or 7:30. No directs at that hour.

No one is faulting B6. This is a thread about views of New York :). You asked why I fly into LGA instead of JFK and the answer is simple: I've had much better luck with delays through LGA than JFK. I think it has to do with the number of enplanements out of JFK and the fact that US has a shuttle out of LGA, minimizing effects of delays since there are so many flights to choose from.

Oh, and also, we're going to Greece this summer on my miles. :)

If you're connecting to save money and earn the miles then more power to you.

I've always wanted to go to Greece. Colleagues of mine who had Greece on a recent business itinerary loved it, friends that went on vacation loved it. Are you flying BOS-PHL-ATH or BOS-FRA-ATH?

BOS-FRA-ATH (LH) business class and then we go to Santorini from there on Aegean Airlines, ATH-JTR. Can you believe that the Aegean flights were $300/per. This is like a 20 minute flight! :eek: Talk about supply and demand w/r/t Greek islands and the summer. :(

Oh well, it should be a fun trip regardless.

Sounds like it should be an amazing trip, wow. Good for you. Lufthansa is really wonderful. I love flying Lufthansa. I was hoping you weren't planning to go BOS-PHL-ATH on US Airways. I don't think Envoy Class could ever hold a candle to Lufthansa's Business Class, its not even like comparing apples to apples. Plus, it'll be so much easier to go from Boston directly across the Ocean rather than flying down to Philadelphia and going through that awful experience. Very exciting for you. I live vicariously through others vacations these days.

I'm not surprised the short hop flights within Greece are so expensive, take the visitors for everything they're worth. Have you ever looked at prices for travel within Argentina? There is the Argentine citizen price, the non Argentine citizen flying an Argentine airline into Argentina price, and then there is the non-Argentine citizen flying a non-Argentine airline into Argentina price. Big difference there. Imagine if the U.S. flags could find a way to charge all European passport holders flying within the U.S. on domestic tickets double the price.

I agree with you, US is a pitiful trans-atlantic product, particularly in "Envoy." Their business class has to be one of the worst in the sky. Definitely not worth the extra miles to upgrade. We made the mistake of doing BOS-PHL-DUB once because of a good fare, and it was miserable.

I don't know about different airline prices for Greeks and non-Greeks, but I will tell you that hotels have different rates. We found a hotel in Santorini that we wanted and the price was one rate on the Internet. My Greek friend said let me give them a call and she was able to get a rate that was 20% cheaper (and a better room to boot!).

At some level this is annoying, but on another level I guess I don't mind up and coming countries taking full advantage of their natural resources. Greece has beautiful islands, the country could use as much money as it can get its hands on for infrastructure improvements and the like, so I don't necessarily mind paying a premium for that kind of thing.

Now, if only the dollar was doing a bit better vs. the Euro.... :rolleyes:

FT is not the appropriate forum for me to launch into my tirade about the weak US Dollar so I won't.

I have always spoken very favorably about jetBlue but I've also always tempered my enthusiasm for jetBlue with my disappointment in the rewards program. Alaska Airlines has a great program with global reach. Its going to be difficult to lure a broad range of business travelers without any option of redeeming awards for something a little more exciting than domestic destinations. I want to go to Greece, I'd be happy flying Continental BusinessFirst nonstop from Newark, as you don't have a nonstop from Boston I think you picked the best option, Lufthansa is excellent.

Sure it is, just not this forum. That is what OMNI is for. :)

Its much less fun to talk about than jetBlue, Continental, and the delays at JFK and Newark anyway.

Thanks for the replies (even though the discussion got a bit off-topic ;) ), especially Dietcoke's reply was very helpful. So based on his thorough analysis I'll go for the left side.

On a side note: I'll fly from Newark to Detroit (on nwa) and from Las Vegas to Newark. Any advice for a good view of Manhatten, Las Vegas and Detroit?

It all depends on the runway that is being used for both arrivals and departures. If you are departing 22R you definitely won't get a view as it will be far behind you. OTOH if you are landing 22L then again sit on the left side as you will make your final approach turn over TEB airport and Manhatten will be off to your left. If they are using the 4's then departing 4L sit right as you will initially make an immediate right turn (towards Manhatten) followed rapidly by a climbing left turn. If landing 4R you won't see anything, likewise if you are on an EJet from DTW they may land RWY 11 and you won't see anything.