jaylenofan86

I was there through this hellhole too the other day. I was trying to fly non-rev out of JFK, but when everything canceled I did the smart thing, got on a train to DC to catch a WN flight out of BWI. I've never seen rude CSAs or CSSs like I saw that night.

BearX220

Hey, respect this guy's story. It's incredible. I could feel myself tensing up as I read it. I wouldn't have stayed as calm as he did; at the 24-hour mark, with some psychotic, out-of-control bully of a JetBlue representative taunting me, I would've come over the counter at him.

I hope Neeleman reads this and weeps some more. "Bringing humanity back to air travel," my a@@. It's like an airline designed by Franz Kafka.

Stedo, I am sorry for your experience. I urge you to write this up and send it to the airline and the U.S. Department of Transportation. And welcome to FlyerTalk.

Don

There's a reason I've stuck with DL and other legacy carriers as much as possible. Southwest is sometimes an unhappy compromise, but my resolve to avoid AirTran & JetBlue is stronger than ever. The few extra bucks are well spent.

longtime lurker

Whether the terminal's restaurants were open and functioning is a legitimate question that I haven't heard anything about in media reports. Were they still open at 3AM, when many passengers were still at the terminal? I certainly understand Stedo's frustration with JetBlue' handling of the whole situation. But under normal circumstances, the main JetBlue terminal at JFK isn't the middle of the Sahara for food and drink options. Compared to the post-security areas of the central LGA terminal and many smaller airports nationwide, it's a veritable oasis.

A lot of JetBlue's problem on Valentines' Day was with managing expectations. Largely due to their marketing hype, JetBlue has set customer service expectations fairly high for a domestic carrier. When they don't deliver on those expectations, people are extremely disappointed. And when they refuse to cancel flights during bad weather, people expect they will be able to get to their destination that day.

Since JetBlue has more leisure travellers who aren't used to flying in the first place, passengers' expectations are a lot higher (and in some cases, unrealistic). For example, most business travellers know that airlines aren't responsible to feed you in the terminal or shelter you at a hotel if delays are caused by weather. Leisure travellers often don't.

sulsk

Your reply has misinformation. The delays were not weather related. They were operations-related. No sane person, including the CEO, is playing the weather card. Since it is a jetBlue failure, travelers deserve to have hotels and meals paid for. I have heard conflicting reports on whether the airline is providing this.

longtime lurker

No it doesn't. On Valentines' Day, delays and cancellations WERE weather related - especially for a scheduled 8:45AM flight (which stedo said he was on). It was still snowing and icing at JFK at that time and for hours afterward. Do you think Delta or American were providing meal and hotel vouchers for their passengers stranded or delayed at JFK on the 14th? I doubt it. As far as I know, no carrier is contractually obligated to give passengers a food or hotel voucher for delays or cancellations caused by weather.

On the 15th, JFK was down a runway at times for some reason, so delays or cancellations those days arguably could be blamed on weather or ATC. Any delays and cancellations after then have absolutely nothing to do with the weather. If passengers flying to IAH, AUS, JAX or the other shut stations were flying on a legacy carrier on those days, they'd probably be entitled to hotel and meal vouchers. But unlike the legacy carriers, JetBlue's contract of carriage doesn't require it pay for meals or hotel rooms for any delays or cancellations, even if the delays or cancelations are for reasons under its control. Whether JetBlue does so as a matter of course or could be successfully sued under some other legal theory if they don't is a separate issue.

kappa

Since I read the response it seems that this matter has gone off to other threads so maybe this will be the end of our discourse.
OK, I'll agree that my word "inconsistent" equates to your phrase 'change [of] mind'.

Yes, I began serious domestic and trans-Atlantic flying in the mid-1960's. Up until deregulation my favorite domestic carriers were UA and AA because each was dominant between different city pairs I flew frequently. On trans-con I usually flew both because I preferred the 707 and DC-8 to the TWA 880. But trans-Atlantic my choice was always TWA over PanAm - if TWA flew the route.

In the days before deregulation, I flew so much on these different airlines that in the 1970s I purchased lifetime memberships at $300 in each of their airport clubs, plus Eastern. You can see that I had a better grasp on the actuarial tables than did they - in the days before revenue management.[/QUOTE]

I knew TWA before it was "broke". I always sensed an esprit de cour at TWA. And then when "they [became] so broke", the 'something special' mantra seemed to be evident with the employees - and we pax could grasp it. That this was not an illusion of mine shows through on the many other airline/aviation boards to which I am privy - especially the one cited in my earlier post to which you also posted.

I do seem to recall you posted somewhere about bad experience with AA. But location is everything; and since I live on the upper [very] east side of Manhattan (near Gracie Mansion), LGA is +/- 15 minutes and comparatively EWR is in the "Midwest". Thus I went with AA. They flew to where I needed to fly from the most convenient airport(s). You living in Brooklyn, perhaps with a car, might find EWR and CO not so distant or inconvenient.

Somehow I seem to recall the maverick airline of the 1980's. I had left the comfort of my expense account days when I had joined all of the airline clubs. I started my own (one-man) firm and I now needed to fly on my own dime weekly to see customers in places like CMH. Guess which airline I flew? It was from EWR on PeoplExpress. I sat/stood/laid down awaiting boarding in the old North Terminal – the very same terminal at which I had arrived on my very first trip to NY on EA back in the '40s after WW2.

And I recall some of the accolades about PE (and Laker) being the 'future' air travel. And we know where both are today.

When Jet Blue began ops, its initial routes were to upstate NY; and it was a godsend to us that had seen these destinations downgraded to prop equipment. I happily paid the taxi fare to JFK to fly to BUF, ROC and SYR on a B6 jet. But I began to worry with the feverish expansion. My former relaxed check-in/wait at JFK-T6 for an intra-state flight became very stressful as B6 expanded. I did use B6 on one JFK-LAS flight (only because it was NS; and, like you, I wanted and appreciated the seat pitch).

The experiences at T6 gave me the feeling that B6 was expanding too fast. The GA were invariably nice, but were always very young and showed their inexperience. They seemed to be where they were because they had been told to be there. I noticed once when there was a PA announced gate change, the GA at the podium were hearing it just as were the pax.

I subscribe to a financial newsletter that covers only airlines. The author wrote over a year ago: "JetBlue was moving "Too Much, Too Hard, Too Fast."

I've been traveling since your response and have been writing this reply as I had time. I have been reading in the NYT and USA Today (on-line) that Nelleman has now acknowledged what I have written above and has been way out front in expressing not only 'apology' but 'embassasment and 'mortification' – a word I never expected to hear from an airline executive,


TF1, I have no real disagreement with you on the evaluations you have expressed on your experience on the airlines you have flown; but I feel your exculpatory remarks about Jet Blue and prior airlines (when posted) exhibited:

· a consistent praise for your then airline-of-choice: and,
· a consistent distain for the prior airline.

Cigarman said, "\. Mr. Nuetral you are not. But, as you say, this is a change of mind.

Best wishes for your future flying....

TWA Fan 1

Kappa, thank you for the very interesting primer on your airline background. I enjoyed reading very much. Especially the part relating to TWA's special esprit de corps. Very much agreed on that.

One other thing we have in common: I fly on my own dime, too since I run my own business and the cost of air travel is something I need to monitor closely.

Regarding the perceived bias of my posts, it's not really for me to say, but I will encourage you to read through the posts I have made since 02/14 on jetBlue. I think you will find that, while I have tried to be evenhanded, I have been deeply, deeply critical of jetBlue.

I'm curious to hear if you agree with me after you have read through these.

Regarding my criticism of CO, as I have said they are confined to a few issues where I believe CO's marketing is deceptive as well as the lack of legroom in coach. Is that bias? After barely being able to walk after a number of transcons in CO coach I felt I needed to be heard, that's all, really.