jetBlueNYFL

hahaha, that was my warm welcome!

TWA Fan 1

A couple of observations.

First, every business has customers whose expectations are unrealistic. JetBlue is a great airline but it's not perfect. If you expect perfection, or everything for nothing, you will be disappointed.

Second, it impresses me how many posters on the legacy forums like to bash B6. I think it's pretty clear that other airlines (and their loyalists) are running very scared of B6, because it's forcing them to do a better job, to deliver more value to the customer. A lot of the airlines wish they could continue making their money the old-fashioned way, by fashioning a marketplace where there is no effective choice.

It has not been a stellar year financially for B6, but the fact is that B6 has lost far less money than any legacy airline in the period since 9/11, even when accounting for its smaller size.

Nevertheless, as soon as B6 had a quarter in the red, the predictions of B6's imminent demise were immediate and legion; you could almost sense the posters salivating at the prospect.

Personally, I think it proves not only that B6 is doing a great job, but also that it has shifted the entire paradigm of the industry. It's not a legacy, it's not a WN "basic transportation." B6 is the only player in the industry that has concentrated on increasing the value to the customer, and it's had a huge impact on the industry, from F9 to DL and others.

If you really want to pick an airline that engages in deceptive advertising, my pick would be Continental. The aggressive marketing of free first-class upgrades (which are increasingly non-existent), of hot meals at mealtime (the mealtime period keeps getting reduced to virtual nothingness), of the newest jet fleet (not newer than B6's, obvbiously), etc. is increasingly out of step with a stingy management crew there that is slowly cutting CO's service to the bone.

It's certainly true that on many itineraries it's possible to buy a less expensive ticket on an airline other than B6. Personally, I'm more than happy to spend a few more bucks for B6's comfort and PTV, which makes it a terrific value.

I think the point is that you don't fly B6 just because it's the cheapest but because it's the best value.

B6 will go through some bumps in the road but it will emerge as the leading player in the U.S. airline industry.

jetBlueNYFL

TWA Fan 1, what an amazing and very true post!!! You are right on about everything you said in regards to jetBlue, other airlines and the industry as a whole.

Please, post that same message on a.net (if you're not a member - please joind just to post it!) Maybe you'll bring some light to the bashers of jetBlue who don't see the whole picture.

Obviously jetBlue isn't perfect - but they have already proved so many critics wrong over and over again and they are built for future success. People either love them or hate them...and the main reason is because they are so good at what they do. Please post that message on a.net as well!!

SkaterJasp

Aside from jetBlue, what other airline have a huge cult following even with out a frequent flyer program? If jetBlue is a scam, there wouldn't be soo many loyal jetBlue flyers out there... this is even true before trueBlue was lunched. As I stated in other post in the past, I will say it again, jetBlue is not perfect, no one company is... but what make jetBlue different is they at least try to make everyone happy. I have a feeling that everyone that hates jetBlue with a passion and post on the jetBlue forum here, with the exception of 1 person that I can think of, never even flown jetBlue.

TWA Fan 1

jetBlueNYFL: Alas, Mrs. TWA Fan 1 would no longer be Fan 1 of TWA Fan 1 if I also spent time on a.net. So I am sticking with FT only

Please feel free, however, to post my reply on a.net.

jetBlueNYFL

Thank you, sir. I'll be sure to post it in the next "jetBlue sucks" debate!

kennedytower

I think that Jet Blue may have raised the 299 cap, that is mentioned here a few times. Take a look at JFK-SJU 22DEC (yes I know it is right before X-Mas) non stop is $349 plus tax and the connection is $399 plus tax.

somedude24

The cap was raised a while ago, but those posts were made way back in 2003 (somehow this thread came back to life recently), which would explain it.

jetBlueNYFL

The cap was waised about a year ago to $399 each way, as stated by somedude24. Again, this is a really old, 3-year old thread and the newer fare cap has been discussed. The $399 fare cap only applies to longest routes (ie. transcon). The fare cap to Florida is $299 and some other routes have $199 fare caps. It all depends on trip distance and current fuel prices.

$399 still beats what legacy airlines charge on other routes.

TWA Fan 1

Especially on trips with little or no advance purchase.

Here's an example (NYC-SFO/OAK 10/17 with the return on 10/20)

Cheapest fares available:

jetBlue: $648.60

Continental: $1,022.00

American: $778.00

United: $1,332.90 (PS)

Delta: $720.60

jetBlue is the least expensive and certainly the best value for the money

jetBlueNYFL

I love pricing examples such as yours! I really get a kick out of what DL charges on routes such as PHL-JFK, even in advance...something like $450 roundtrip for a 30-minute flight on a puddle-jumper, while jetBlue is charging around $130 roundtrip for a flight on a comfortable, safe E190 on say JFK-BOS.

j3823x

Well, often times (if not most times) for advance purchases it works the other way around where B6 is not the least expensive.

For a trip in February for SFO/OAK-NYC (non-stops only):
Continental $319
Alaska $339 (codeshares with American and/or Delta)
American $339
United $363
JetBlue $379
Delta $413

Same dates NYC-BOS (non-stops only)
Delta $124
JetBlue $131
American $141
Continental $159

I've generally found that trips booked at least a month in advance are cheaper on legacy carriers while last minute trips usually cost less on B6. I attribute this to last minute seats going more to business travelers which make up less of the mix for B6 than that of most legacy carriers.

Basically, if B6 could charge more for those last minute seats, they would but apparently the demand isn't there to do so. They're not charging less just to be generous. B6 is attempting to maximize revenue/profits just like every other airline out there; they just use a different set of variables: pricing modeled more around "everyday" than "high/low".

TWA Fan 1

No question about it.

A couple of observations.

Frist, B6 is not a "Low Cost Carrier," instead it might more appropriately be described as a "premium all-coach" carrier.

I fully agree that its pricing model usually means that its deeply-discounted seats are slightly more expensive than the competition.

Personally, I'm happy to spend a few more bucks for the additional legroom, more comfortable seat and PTV.

I mean, using your example above, I could save $60 by flying Continental, and then be subjected to industry-minimium 31" seat pitch, a criminally uncomfortable seat, and most planes which only have two lavatories for up to 141 passengers.

Then again, you wouldn't really be saving that $60 anyway, because your CO example does not include additional taxes and your actual purchase price on CO would be $338.60 which represents an actual savings of $40.

Then, there is the fact that any changes I may need to make on my itinerary are far less expensive on B6 than on the legacies.

Second, let's not kid ourselves. Were it not for B6, the legacy fares you cite would be much higher. The legacies feel highly threatened by B6 and very aggressively underprice these routes in order to limit B6's capacity to control the market. Fair enough. That's capitalism.

But if B6 were to give up a given route, the legacy fares would quickly rise. One of the example you cite is JFK-BOS. Before B6 entered that market, the fares were generally twice as expensive as what they are now. And that's where they would return were B6 to leave this route.

So, while B6 may not always literally be the least expensive, they are the best value and are definitely driving the market.

Finally, while I'm not sure which dates in February 2007 you selected (you didn't specify them) please note that my example involved selecting the least expensive fares available on any airline irrespective of departure time.

My own quick survey of Feb 2007 (outbound 02/08 & return on 02/11) revealed that the current lowest fare available for JFK-OAK on B6 (one of the two examples you cite) is $338.60.

By comparison, the $319 fare you cite for CO is pre-tax and your purchase price would actually be $338.60, the same, penny for penny, as B6's least expensive fare for Feb 2007.

Do you think that's just a coincidence?

MarkXS

I'll second jetBlueNYFL's point about changes. I had been booking a bunch of BOS-DEN trips when I was in the process of moving from Boston to Colorado, but also the occassional DEN-BOS origination when I drove one-way. I got confused one time and booked a DEN-BOS R/T when I meant to book a BOS-DEN. Called up when I realized it about an hour later, and they changed it for me at no charge.

The only reason I don't fly B6 much anymore is due to the FF program. Although I like B6 coach a lot more than any of the legacies, even more than UA E+, and I'm not one of those "I only fly when I can get upgraded" UA Warm Nuts types, I do like to accumulate miles from domestic/business trips to use on foreign leisure trips. Until B6 comes up with a tie-up with an international carrier for rewards, I prefer to accumulate in UA MP and NW WP. My wife likes the idea we're going to South America on DL for free from NW miles, and my daughter is very happy with her free ticket *A to Europe from UA. jetBlue unfortunately can't compete with this unless they get an international partner

Oh yeah and I really don't like that DEN-BOS redeye as the only non-stop choice. Not long enough to get any sleep.

But jetBlue has always done right by me in terms of onboard service and on-phone customer service. I find the trolling by cuprex curious.

Oh yeah, and when I was flying B6 regularly in 2004-2005, I did earn and had no trouble redeeming a few reward flights.

j3823x

The $319 includes taxes but was a EWR-SJC run that mistakenly slipped into my search results. Continental into SFO was $339 in line with Alaska and American. Sorry about that.