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-   -   Northeast Alliance with AA is dead (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/jetblue-trueblue/2127432-northeast-alliance-aa-dead.html)

salut0 Jul 11, 2023 11:05 am


Originally Posted by nerd (Post 35404279)
So the airline industry folded in half when the 6 majors merged, but what's keeping us from a competitive market are AA/B6 codeshares in the Northeast.

Glad the DOT has got our back.

Is there a difference among administrations as to whether mergers get approved? I’ve collated these dates but I’d be interested to see the data further back for other airline mergers too:

George W Bush administration:
NW/DL merger: 10/29/2008

Barack Obama administration:
CO/UA merger: 10/01/2010
AA/US merger: 11/12/2013

MCO Flyer Jul 11, 2023 12:37 pm


Originally Posted by salut0 (Post 35404331)
Is there a difference among administrations as to whether mergers get approved? I’ve collated these dates but I’d be interested to see the data further back for other airline mergers too:

George W Bush administration:
NW/DL merger: 10/29/2008

Barack Obama administration:
CO/UA merger: 10/01/2010
AA/US merger: 11/12/2013

Some more mergers and the administration they were approved under:

W Bush Administration:
- TW/AA merger: April 2001
- US/HP merger: September 2005

Obama Administration:
- FL/WN merger: May 2011
- VS/AS merger: December 2016

Most of the big US airline consolidation occurred post-9/11 in the Bush and Obama administrations at about an equal rate. No airline mergers (if you don’t count regionals) closed under the Trump administration and so far none have closed under the Biden Administration (with NK/B6 pending lawsuit).

TravellingChris Jul 16, 2023 4:35 am


Originally Posted by samwise6222 (Post 35388928)
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/05/jetb...rtnership.html

Jetblue said it will begin unwinding its alliance with AA to focus on Spirit acquisition.

What happens if the Spirit deal doesn't get approval? B6 is sacrificing the AA alliance to improve its chances of getting the NK transaction over the line. But isn't there a risk to B6's strategy that it winds up with neither the Northeast Alliance nor the Spirit acquisition?

aviators99 Jul 16, 2023 10:48 am


Originally Posted by MCO Flyer (Post 35404603)
Some more mergers and the administration they were approved under:

W Bush Administration:
- TW/AA merger: April 2001
- US/HP merger: September 2005

Obama Administration:
- FL/WN merger: May 2011
- VS/AS merger: December 2016

That last one should be VX/AS


Most of the big US airline consolidation occurred post-9/11 in the Bush and Obama administrations at about an equal rate. No airline mergers (if you don’t count regionals) closed under the Trump administration and so far none have closed under the Biden Administration (with NK/B6 pending lawsuit).
Historically speaking, Justice departments under Democrat administrations have been more keen to file antitrust actions than under Republican. This is not airline-specific, though.

Scotttyd Jul 16, 2023 3:08 pm

does this affect the reciprocal benefits? I have AA gold and an awards flight on Jet Blue booked in December- will I still get the AA benefits? (really all I care about is the access to premium economy and the mosaic check in line since it is close to Christmas.

Along these lines- since these are award tickets- is there any benefit of adding my wife and daughter's AA number to the reservation? We don't fly jetblue much, and would rather have the few AA miles the flight earns.

billatq Jul 17, 2023 5:45 am


Originally Posted by samwise6222 (Post 35388928)
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/05/jetb...rtnership.html

Jetblue said it will begin unwinding its alliance with AA to focus on Spirit acquisition.

I think this is actually a good thing. There's less capacity available in the markets served by both airlines and thus less room for things to go wrong. Take BOS-DCA as an example, when there's a weather issue, neither B6 nor AA really want to put you on the other's aircraft, so you'll often get stuck waiting longer than you would have otherwise.

Alaska has also been grumpy about the whole NEA after the scuffle between both B6 and AS trying to buy VX, so you can't even book the B6 flights that are AA codeshares with Alaska miles (nor get mileage credit for AA metal on B6 stock), even when it would otherwise be straightforward.

billatq Jul 17, 2023 5:50 am


Originally Posted by Scotttyd (Post 35418663)
does this affect the reciprocal benefits? I have AA gold and an awards flight on Jet Blue booked in December- will I still get the AA benefits? (really all I care about is the access to premium economy and the mosaic check in line since it is close to Christmas.

Along these lines- since these are award tickets- is there any benefit of adding my wife and daughter's AA number to the reservation? We don't fly jetblue much, and would rather have the few AA miles the flight earns.

Dunno about the AA side, but on the B6 side, they sent out a mail a few days ago saying that you'd get B6 credit on AA flights as long as the number was added to the booking no later than July 20, 2023. I wouldn't expect to get reciprocal benefits otherwise, but I'd suspect that you can use the premium security line at most airports if you flash your AA frequent flyer card.

GW McLintock Jul 17, 2023 6:44 am


Originally Posted by TravellingChris (Post 35417303)
What happens if the Spirit deal doesn't get approval? B6 is sacrificing the AA alliance to improve its chances of getting the NK transaction over the line. But isn't there a risk to B6's strategy that it winds up with neither the Northeast Alliance nor the Spirit acquisition?

JetBlue's M.O. has always been ready, fire, aim. If the Spirit deal doesn't go through, there won't be a JetBlue in 10 years from now. I am pretty sure the DOJ can figure this out too, and I'm sure will ask for a boatload of concessions.


Originally Posted by billatq (Post 35419994)
I think this is actually a good thing. There's less capacity available in the markets served by both airlines and thus less room for things to go wrong. Take BOS-DCA as an example, when there's a weather issue, neither B6 nor AA really want to put you on the other's aircraft, so you'll often get stuck waiting longer than you would have otherwise.

Alaska has also been grumpy about the whole NEA after the scuffle between both B6 and AS trying to buy VX, so you can't even book the B6 flights that are AA codeshares with Alaska miles (nor get mileage credit for AA metal on B6 stock), even when it would otherwise be straightforward.

IIRC AS had nothing to do with this. The NEA was only allowed between AA and B6 metal; AA could never have dragged AS into the mix and vice versa, even if AS wasn't grumpy.

-J.

billatq Jul 17, 2023 7:24 am


Originally Posted by GW McLintock (Post 35420120)
JetBlue's M.O. has always been ready, fire, aim. If the Spirit deal doesn't go through, there won't be a JetBlue in 10 years from now. I am pretty sure the DOJ can figure this out too, and I'm sure will ask for a boatload of concessions.


IIRC AS had nothing to do with this. The NEA was only allowed between AA and B6 metal; AA could never have dragged AS into the mix and vice versa, even if AS wasn't grumpy.

-J.

That's true, but points for a flight on AA metal (but B6 stock instead of any other stock) can't be credited to AS, or at least couldn't in my testing. For booking flights, AA couldn't drag AS into it, but this meant that there were fewer options for me to book as AA ramped down their own flights in favor of B6 flights in some places.

GW McLintock Jul 17, 2023 8:05 am


Originally Posted by billatq (Post 35420220)
That's true, but points for a flight on AA metal (but B6 stock instead of any other stock) can't be credited to AS, or at least couldn't in my testing. For booking flights, AA couldn't drag AS into it, but this meant that there were fewer options for me to book as AA ramped down their own flights in favor of B6 flights in some places.

They never could. AS was specifically excluded.

-J.

billatq Jul 17, 2023 8:48 am


Originally Posted by GW McLintock (Post 35420329)
They never could. AS was specifically excluded.

-J.

I feel like we're talking across each other here, so I'll be a bit more specific. Alaska allows flights that are marketed and operated by American Airlines to be credited to their program. It goes on to state that "to ensure flight credit for travel on American Airlines, the two-letter airline code (AA) must precede the flight number on your receipt or boarding pass."

So in the case that I tested, there were the following conditions:
  • I flew on AA flight 3524 from BOS-CMH
  • AA flight 3524 was operated by Envoy Air for American Airlines
  • The flight was displayed an an American flight, though it was purchasable through a codeshare as B6 4732
  • This flight had an American confirmation code
  • On the PNR for American American, it allowed you to select miles to be credited to Alaska
Now I realize that buying it through the B6 codeshare (despite it not showing up directly as a codeshare when you purchase it but as an American flight) does mean that it's not "marketed" by American, but it's often the case that you can still credit flights that are operated by a partner carrier, even if it has been booked through a codeshare. It's not surprising to me that JetBlue was always excluded for their marketed and operated flights, but it's a little surprising to me that an American flight is excluded.

Perhaps this is because I've made some strange things work, such as ticketing United flights on Delta stock and then getting credit, but admittedly those don't have codeshares and are different arrangements.

diburning Jul 17, 2023 12:32 pm

You need to keep in mind that AS and AA are in the OneWorld alliance where that alliance dictates how miles are credited. OneWorld's rule is that the marketing carrier determines the earning.

billatq Jul 20, 2023 7:46 am


Originally Posted by billatq (Post 35419999)
Dunno about the AA side, but on the B6 side, they sent out a mail a few days ago saying that you'd get B6 credit on AA flights as long as the number was added to the booking no later than July 20, 2023. I wouldn't expect to get reciprocal benefits otherwise, but I'd suspect that you can use the premium security line at most airports if you flash your AA frequent flyer card.

From JetBlue's filing yesterday:

Frequent Flyer. On July 21, 2023, Defendants will terminate the ability to redeem
frequent flyer miles for travel on each other’s airline (i.e., AA passengers will no
longer be able to use AAdvantage miles to book seats on JetBlue flights). Tickets
purchased with miles (mileage redemption) by July 20 will be honored by the
airlines. This was publicly announced on July 14. Consumers may continue to
accrue frequent flyer benefits, including mileage accrual for tickets purchased or
issued by July 20, through January 31, 2024.
From the DOJ's filing yesterday (proposed order):

Each Defendant may enable
travelers to continue to accrue benefits through its respective frequent flyer program for travel on
flights operated by the other Defendant that occurs on or before January 31, 2024, for existing
tickets valid at the time of the Frequent Flyer Cutoff Date. Each Defendant may honor reciprocal
elite recognition benefits in existence as of the Frequent Flyer Cutoff Date through January 31,
2024.

uclacolumbiaunc Jul 20, 2023 11:23 am

Today is the last day of booking B6 flight and get benefits based on AA status. I am curious if I make a speculative booking today, and then later make a change on the date, do i still get the AA status benefit after making date change?

rasheed Jul 24, 2023 8:10 am

From what I can tell, AA program is gone from B6 website dropdown for existing reservations, but existing entries are there for now. I don't think any flight changes will go well if reticketing is involved for keeping AA info attached.

I also see adding baggage for non status AA flyer on existing B6 booking is broken. Not surprised, but disappointed.


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