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London fares and how they're looking...

London fares and how they're looking...

Old Jul 9, 2021, 1:56 pm
  #16  
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Originally Posted by oneworldglobetrotter
People also need to realise that taxes make up such a high portion of the overall fare. For them to really move the needle they have to really undercut the other carriers on the fare as taxes are the same across the board.

Its easier for them to do that in the premium cabin but I dont think their pricing will ever be much better in economy.
Thats why I dont see myself flying B6 in Y, on a narrow body plane. At least on a widebody there are places to stand up and hang if Ii need to (which many times I do). Had B6 been alot cheaper fare wise that probably would have sealed it for me at least. will still keep them as #1 in The US and if flying Biz would give them a chance if the flight times work out. Honestly with 2 R/Ts a day from JFK it doesnt look great, especially when AA/BA was almost an hourly service, which allowed me to move flights at need or do an OJ but with B6 only flying to LHR and no where else in Europe an OJ would have to be 2 O/Ws and very costly
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Old Jul 10, 2021, 11:09 am
  #17  
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Funny, my original post was probably more of an exploration of what role Jet Blue expects to play over the atlantic... Pre pandemic, we had tons of fare options to get across the ocean and into Europe. The carnage to the network carriers was pretty bad, but the non network carriers (ie, the discounters) was horrible, which removed any actual competition over the ocean between the US and EU. Say what you want about the old Norwegian, but they were always putting downward pressure on the bloated sovereign/network carriers for transatlantic carriage. We started using them often when their premium economy offering was literally 50-70% less than everyone else, and the product was perfectly fine.

Was so excited to see Jet Blue entering transatlantic carriage, hoping they would put competitive pressure on the old school sovereign/network carriers crazy fares. I think sfozrhfco makes a good point, which is that we really won't have any real view of how this will develop until the pandemic based deep reduction in total number of seats over the ocean starts to fade, and most of the carriers resume some form of high volume schedule. Heck, there used to be like 40 flights a day between just LON-NYC on a dozen carriers pre pandemic. If I needed to get to the UK on short notice, I could almost just drive to most of the airports in the NY area and jump on the next flight out.

I'm hoping that Jet Blue can build a real transatlantic business, and find a following. Heck, for leisure travel with our large family (lots O' people), Gatwick is terrific as a gateway to the EU with Easyjet being there as a base. So I guess we'll see how it plays out.....
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Old Jul 10, 2021, 12:08 pm
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by wingnuthead
Funny, my original post was probably more of an exploration of what role Jet Blue expects to play over the atlantic... Pre pandemic, we had tons of fare options to get across the ocean and into Europe. The carnage to the network carriers was pretty bad, but the non network carriers (ie, the discounters) was horrible, which removed any actual competition over the ocean between the US and EU. Say what you want about the old Norwegian, but they were always putting downward pressure on the bloated sovereign/network carriers for transatlantic carriage. We started using them often when their premium economy offering was literally 50-70% less than everyone else, and the product was perfectly fine.

Was so excited to see Jet Blue entering transatlantic carriage, hoping they would put competitive pressure on the old school sovereign/network carriers crazy fares. I think sfozrhfco makes a good point, which is that we really won't have any real view of how this will develop until the pandemic based deep reduction in total number of seats over the ocean starts to fade, and most of the carriers resume some form of high volume schedule. Heck, there used to be like 40 flights a day between just LON-NYC on a dozen carriers pre pandemic. If I needed to get to the UK on short notice, I could almost just drive to most of the airports in the NY area and jump on the next flight out.

I'm hoping that Jet Blue can build a real transatlantic business, and find a following. Heck, for leisure travel with our large family (lots O' people), Gatwick is terrific as a gateway to the EU with Easyjet being there as a base. So I guess we'll see how it plays out.....
Well, if they can keep NYC-LON return J fares at $2500 to 3000 range for all the carriers, I would say that's a pretty big deal. DY was always cheaper than legacies because legacies don't need to price match them.
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Old Jul 10, 2021, 11:25 pm
  #19  
 
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Originally Posted by oneworldglobetrotter
People also need to realise that taxes make up such a high portion of the overall fare. For them to really move the needle they have to really undercut the other carriers on the fare as taxes are the same across the board.

Its easier for them to do that in the premium cabin but I dont think their pricing will ever be much better in economy.
In the specific case of London flights, there's certainly a high floor due to taxes about $246 in economy on a round trip JFK-LHR. But economy fares from the US-Europe are highly seasonal traditionally much higher in summer than any other time. I suspect those are the only times other carriers are making real money on economy tickets. Even if JetBlue doesn't affect average fares 9 months out of the year, they could still significantly reduce peak season fares.

Taxes and fees are also significantly less to many other European countries, where JetBlue will presumably look next. Taxes on an economy R/T to CDG are about half as much ($133) and other destinations are even less ($109 to AMS, $112 to FCO, etc). Heck, Ireland charges so little that an expensive JFK-LAX could cost more in taxes than JFK-DUB.
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Old Jul 12, 2021, 12:54 am
  #20  
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Sure you aren't confusing airline surcharges with proper government taxes?

On a BA booking of the 1,300 fare I quoted above UK APD is 180 (out of a total 267.62 of proper UK and US government taxes and airport fees)

The BA base fare is 632 and their surcharge is 400 (but they add the 400 to the 267.62 under all one heading of 'taxes, fees and surcharges)

Jet Blue is charging exactly the same 267.62 for proper government taxes and airport fees . They do appear to be charging only 300 as their surcharge,

Surcharge is 100% down to the airline.
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