London fares and how they're looking...
#16
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
People also need to realise that taxes make up such a high portion of the overall fare. For them to really move the needle they have to really undercut the other carriers on the fare as taxes are the same across the board.
Its easier for them to do that in the premium cabin but I dont think their pricing will ever be much better in economy.
Its easier for them to do that in the premium cabin but I dont think their pricing will ever be much better in economy.
#17
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Prisoner of EWR
Programs: Lifetime AA Plat, UA status-less after 15 years
Posts: 149
Funny, my original post was probably more of an exploration of what role Jet Blue expects to play over the atlantic... Pre pandemic, we had tons of fare options to get across the ocean and into Europe. The carnage to the network carriers was pretty bad, but the non network carriers (ie, the discounters) was horrible, which removed any actual competition over the ocean between the US and EU. Say what you want about the old Norwegian, but they were always putting downward pressure on the bloated sovereign/network carriers for transatlantic carriage. We started using them often when their premium economy offering was literally 50-70% less than everyone else, and the product was perfectly fine.
Was so excited to see Jet Blue entering transatlantic carriage, hoping they would put competitive pressure on the old school sovereign/network carriers crazy fares. I think sfozrhfco makes a good point, which is that we really won't have any real view of how this will develop until the pandemic based deep reduction in total number of seats over the ocean starts to fade, and most of the carriers resume some form of high volume schedule. Heck, there used to be like 40 flights a day between just LON-NYC on a dozen carriers pre pandemic. If I needed to get to the UK on short notice, I could almost just drive to most of the airports in the NY area and jump on the next flight out.
I'm hoping that Jet Blue can build a real transatlantic business, and find a following. Heck, for leisure travel with our large family (lots O' people), Gatwick is terrific as a gateway to the EU with Easyjet being there as a base. So I guess we'll see how it plays out.....
Was so excited to see Jet Blue entering transatlantic carriage, hoping they would put competitive pressure on the old school sovereign/network carriers crazy fares. I think sfozrhfco makes a good point, which is that we really won't have any real view of how this will develop until the pandemic based deep reduction in total number of seats over the ocean starts to fade, and most of the carriers resume some form of high volume schedule. Heck, there used to be like 40 flights a day between just LON-NYC on a dozen carriers pre pandemic. If I needed to get to the UK on short notice, I could almost just drive to most of the airports in the NY area and jump on the next flight out.
I'm hoping that Jet Blue can build a real transatlantic business, and find a following. Heck, for leisure travel with our large family (lots O' people), Gatwick is terrific as a gateway to the EU with Easyjet being there as a base. So I guess we'll see how it plays out.....
#18
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,485
Funny, my original post was probably more of an exploration of what role Jet Blue expects to play over the atlantic... Pre pandemic, we had tons of fare options to get across the ocean and into Europe. The carnage to the network carriers was pretty bad, but the non network carriers (ie, the discounters) was horrible, which removed any actual competition over the ocean between the US and EU. Say what you want about the old Norwegian, but they were always putting downward pressure on the bloated sovereign/network carriers for transatlantic carriage. We started using them often when their premium economy offering was literally 50-70% less than everyone else, and the product was perfectly fine.
Was so excited to see Jet Blue entering transatlantic carriage, hoping they would put competitive pressure on the old school sovereign/network carriers crazy fares. I think sfozrhfco makes a good point, which is that we really won't have any real view of how this will develop until the pandemic based deep reduction in total number of seats over the ocean starts to fade, and most of the carriers resume some form of high volume schedule. Heck, there used to be like 40 flights a day between just LON-NYC on a dozen carriers pre pandemic. If I needed to get to the UK on short notice, I could almost just drive to most of the airports in the NY area and jump on the next flight out.
I'm hoping that Jet Blue can build a real transatlantic business, and find a following. Heck, for leisure travel with our large family (lots O' people), Gatwick is terrific as a gateway to the EU with Easyjet being there as a base. So I guess we'll see how it plays out.....
Was so excited to see Jet Blue entering transatlantic carriage, hoping they would put competitive pressure on the old school sovereign/network carriers crazy fares. I think sfozrhfco makes a good point, which is that we really won't have any real view of how this will develop until the pandemic based deep reduction in total number of seats over the ocean starts to fade, and most of the carriers resume some form of high volume schedule. Heck, there used to be like 40 flights a day between just LON-NYC on a dozen carriers pre pandemic. If I needed to get to the UK on short notice, I could almost just drive to most of the airports in the NY area and jump on the next flight out.
I'm hoping that Jet Blue can build a real transatlantic business, and find a following. Heck, for leisure travel with our large family (lots O' people), Gatwick is terrific as a gateway to the EU with Easyjet being there as a base. So I guess we'll see how it plays out.....
#19
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: BOS
Programs: Marriott LTG, HHonors Diamond, Nat'l Exec
Posts: 3,580
People also need to realise that taxes make up such a high portion of the overall fare. For them to really move the needle they have to really undercut the other carriers on the fare as taxes are the same across the board.
Its easier for them to do that in the premium cabin but I dont think their pricing will ever be much better in economy.
Its easier for them to do that in the premium cabin but I dont think their pricing will ever be much better in economy.
Taxes and fees are also significantly less to many other European countries, where JetBlue will presumably look next. Taxes on an economy R/T to CDG are about half as much ($133) and other destinations are even less ($109 to AMS, $112 to FCO, etc). Heck, Ireland charges so little that an expensive JFK-LAX could cost more in taxes than JFK-DUB.
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA Gold / VS /IHG Diamond & Ambassador
Posts: 14,141
Sure you aren't confusing airline surcharges with proper government taxes?
On a BA booking of the 1,300 fare I quoted above UK APD is 180 (out of a total 267.62 of proper UK and US government taxes and airport fees)
The BA base fare is 632 and their surcharge is 400 (but they add the 400 to the 267.62 under all one heading of 'taxes, fees and surcharges)
Jet Blue is charging exactly the same 267.62 for proper government taxes and airport fees . They do appear to be charging only 300 as their surcharge,
Surcharge is 100% down to the airline.
On a BA booking of the 1,300 fare I quoted above UK APD is 180 (out of a total 267.62 of proper UK and US government taxes and airport fees)
The BA base fare is 632 and their surcharge is 400 (but they add the 400 to the 267.62 under all one heading of 'taxes, fees and surcharges)
Jet Blue is charging exactly the same 267.62 for proper government taxes and airport fees . They do appear to be charging only 300 as their surcharge,
Surcharge is 100% down to the airline.