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-   -   LAX--New focus city (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/jetblue-trueblue/2021288-lax-new-focus-city.html)

cmd320 Jul 15, 20 8:45 am


Originally Posted by tphuang (Post 32533149)
If JetBlue didn't make a move here, they would've been in risk of getting kicked to MSC, which would've been a disaster for their mint franchise.

Not sure I follow why that would be a disaster for Mint...

sbm12 Jul 15, 20 10:23 am


Originally Posted by tphuang (Post 32533149)
Cranky has no idea what he is talking about here and neither do you. JetBlue has been desperate to get gates at LAX for a long time. They were bidding against AS for up to $2.6 billion for VX just to get additional gates at LAX and SFO. Now, they get it for essentially just the cost of lease for those gates.

JetBlue's motivation in the VX deal was about much more than just getting some gates. It was about establishing a nationwide network instead of an east coast network that occasionally few out west. That was not an expansion the company could undertake with organic growth levels.

Also telling is that even with more LAX gates there is minimal discussion of adding service within the region as opposed to longer VFR markets that can be served efficiently from LAX.

tphuang Jul 15, 20 1:33 pm


Originally Posted by cmd320 (Post 32533162)
Not sure I follow why that would be a disaster for Mint...

HA actually is suing LAWA about getting forced to MSC. Not a great situation for domestic airline to be at MSC.
https://beatofhawaii.com/trouble-bre...iian-airlines/


Originally Posted by sbm12 (Post 32533447)
JetBlue's motivation in the VX deal was about much more than just getting some gates. It was about establishing a nationwide network instead of an east coast network that occasionally few out west. That was not an expansion the company could undertake with organic growth levels.

Also telling is that even with more LAX gates there is minimal discussion of adding service within the region as opposed to longer VFR markets that can be served efficiently from LAX.

And you don't think they are looking for that transition now? A lot of resources being poured into EWR to grab as many gates there as possible. There is a ton of slots becoming available at JFK, so there is finally room for JetBlue to transition into more than just a leisure carrier in NYC. To do that, they finally added important missing links in DFW, MSP and DTW. They will be flying to Europe next summer based on their most recent comment. This is a network re-alignment to expand their relevance to other regions. At minimum, they will be relevant to more people in NY and NJ area.

Sure, if they were to stay as an airline only focused on BOS and leisure market in NYC, then they can keep building up Boston while cutting off all short haul from west coast. Then Cranky would be right in saying this doesn't make sense.

But they seem to have more ambitions right now. They should be looking to capture more of that top corporate dollars that have eluded them so far even in Northeast. In order to that, they need to fly to more places domestically, fly to Europe and have greater presence in west coast (since many firms have large offices on both coasts). So they need more presence in LAX and SFO. So I do fully expect them to have more of a west coast operation than what they have moved over so far. I did a hypothetical route network for that 70 flight schedule and they would need to run at least 20 flights on the west coast to get to that total. I don't think it's a big sacrifice to lose some money on west coast market in order to boost their mint transcon performance and help them capture more of the top corporate dollars.

cmd320 Jul 15, 20 2:02 pm


Originally Posted by tphuang (Post 32533950)
HA actually is suing LAWA about getting forced to MSC. Not a great situation for domestic airline to be at MSC.
https://beatofhawaii.com/trouble-bre...iian-airlines/

It sounds like thereís two major complaints:

1) lack of domestic luggage processing
2) lack of co-location with B6 (easy to fix if issue number 1 can be resolved)

What is preventing domestic luggage from being processed at TBIT?

diburning Jul 17, 20 7:48 pm


Originally Posted by sbm12 (Post 32533447)
JetBlue's motivation in the VX deal was about much more than just getting some gates. It was about establishing a nationwide network instead of an east coast network that occasionally few out west. That was not an expansion the company could undertake with organic growth levels.

Also telling is that even with more LAX gates there is minimal discussion of adding service within the region as opposed to longer VFR markets that can be served efficiently from LAX.

I think the main obstacle to Jetblue expanding on the west coast is the lack of a west coast maintenance facility which precludes them from having a sizeable west coast based fleet. Acquiring VX would have added a west coast fleet with their maintenance contracts (VX contracted with United for maintenance on their A319s and A320s at SFO)

GW McLintock Jul 17, 20 7:52 pm


Originally Posted by diburning (Post 32539726)
I think the main obstacle to Jetblue expanding on the west coast is the lack of a west coast maintenance facility which precludes them from having a sizeable west coast based fleet. Acquiring VX would have added a west coast fleet with their maintenance contracts (VX contracted with United for maintenance on their A319s and A320s at SFO)

They have (had?) Airbus maintenance (including parts and possibly an engine) in LGB. They did not have a hangar so pad 11 at the terminal was usually used for maintenance or the operational spare.

LAX used to have an operational Mint spare part-time. It would arrive in the morning from the east coast, hang out all day, and do one of the redeyes out. I don't know if this is still the case. I imagine finding a maintenance hangar at LAX would be easier, or it could be shared with another airline (looking at AA, who also has IAE-powered Airbuses).

-J.

ryw Jul 17, 20 9:47 pm

I know AAís new partnerships mostly benefit AS on the west coast and B6 in the east coast, but it seems like the new AA/B6 codeshare agreements puts the LAX move in a new light.

While I personally still donít like the O/D passenger experience at LAX, it seems like this partnership might allow for new passenger feeds on connecting flights (and/or B6 flights might be an appealing option for some AA folks)

bgasser Jul 18, 20 12:57 am


Originally Posted by tphuang (Post 32533950)
HA actually is suing LAWA about getting forced to MSC. Not a great situation for domestic airline to be at MSC.
https://beatofhawaii.com/trouble-bre...iian-airlines/


And you don't think they are looking for that transition now? A lot of resources being poured into EWR to grab as many gates there as possible. There is a ton of slots becoming available at JFK, so there is finally room for JetBlue to transition into more than just a leisure carrier in NYC. To do that, they finally added important missing links in DFW, MSP and DTW. They will be flying to Europe next summer based on their most recent comment. This is a network re-alignment to expand their relevance to other regions. At minimum, they will be relevant to more people in NY and NJ area.

Sure, if they were to stay as an airline only focused on BOS and leisure market in NYC, then they can keep building up Boston while cutting off all short haul from west coast. Then Cranky would be right in saying this doesn't make sense.

But they seem to have more ambitions right now. They should be looking to capture more of that top corporate dollars that have eluded them so far even in Northeast. In order to that, they need to fly to more places domestically, fly to Europe and have greater presence in west coast (since many firms have large offices on both coasts). So they need more presence in LAX and SFO. So I do fully expect them to have more of a west coast operation than what they have moved over so far. I did a hypothetical route network for that 70 flight schedule and they would need to run at least 20 flights on the west coast to get to that total. I don't think it's a big sacrifice to lose some money on west coast market in order to boost their mint transcon performance and help them capture more of the top corporate dollars.

B6 doesn't even have a lounge at T5 at JFK. They are not going to compete for major corporate customers who need an entire route map filled in with frequency.

N830MH Jul 18, 20 1:40 am


Originally Posted by tphuang (Post 32533950)
HA actually is suing LAWA about getting forced to MSC. Not a great situation for domestic airline to be at MSC.
https://beatofhawaii.com/trouble-bre...iian-airlines/

Yeah, they doesn't want move. They wants stay at entire T5, not go to MSC. Way too far!

tphuang Jul 19, 20 5:44 pm


Originally Posted by bgasser (Post 32540004)
B6 doesn't even have a lounge at T5 at JFK. They are not going to compete for major corporate customers who need an entire route map filled in with frequency.

JetBlue is changing. As it moves up the value chain, it will need to figure out how to continue to gain more corporate customers.

bgasser Jul 19, 20 10:12 pm


Originally Posted by tphuang (Post 32543792)
JetBlue is changing. As it moves up the value chain, it will need to figure out how to continue to gain more corporate customers.

WN has figured out how to become the most profitable US airline without catering to corporate customers. B6 seems stuck in a weird spot, offering Mint but not having lounges. Its route network from JFK offers a lot of service to CA, Caribbean and FL, but not much frequency to the Midwest (CLE, CMH...) or TX. Hard for me to see the vision they have for themselves over the next 10 years.

cmd320 Jul 19, 20 10:15 pm


Originally Posted by bgasser (Post 32544159)
WN has figured out how to become the most profitable US airline without catering to corporate customers. B6 seems stuck in a weird spot, offering Mint but not having lounges. Its route network from JFK offers a lot of service to CA, Caribbean and FL, but not much frequency to the Midwest (CLE, CMH...) or TX. Hard for me to see the vision they have for themselves over the next 10 years.

WN has always been an airline Iíve never understood. Then again itís an airline dedicated to those who donít really fly very much.

diburning Jul 20, 20 4:42 am


Originally Posted by bgasser (Post 32540004)
B6 doesn't even have a lounge at T5 at JFK. They are not going to compete for major corporate customers who need an entire route map filled in with frequency.

I would not be surprised if they change their mind on this by the time T6 is finished. If they do, then they'd probably move all of their Mint flights to T6 where Mint customers, transatlantic premium cabin customers (remember, they're starting that next year!), and premium cabin partner airline customers can use the lounge.

tphuang Jul 20, 20 8:39 am


Originally Posted by bgasser (Post 32544159)
WN has figured out how to become the most profitable US airline without catering to corporate customers. B6 seems stuck in a weird spot, offering Mint but not having lounges. Its route network from JFK offers a lot of service to CA, Caribbean and FL, but not much frequency to the Midwest (CLE, CMH...) or TX. Hard for me to see the vision they have for themselves over the next 10 years.

JetBlue and WN are fundamentally different airlines due to their origin. JetBlue started off trying to replicate WN strategy with service to secondary airports like OAK, LGB and IAD. It's gone from all of them now and concentrate its service to the primary airport in the area. The reason is having a large base in JFK means you need to do a lot of transcon and international flying. That's what they are focused on. Also, they have to serve the travel demand of people in NY and Boston. Unfortunately, midwest is not very high on that list, so they are pretty underserved for JetBlue.

JetBlue right now is looking more and more like a legacy carrier without a national network. The TATL flying + additional slots and other benefits from relationship with AA is going to help it attract the top corporate dollars in firms with large northeast offices that have eluded them so far. At a particular point, there will be more and more request for lounge. And JetBlue will have to decide whether or not it's worth the cost. I would say when they do the JFK terminal expansion, it's a perfect time to add one for mint customers. We will see.

nsx Jul 20, 20 12:41 pm


Originally Posted by cmd320 (Post 32544164)
WN has always been an airline Iíve never understood. Then again itís an airline dedicated to those who donít really fly very much.

Southwest began serving business travelers intra-Texas. For many years they have carried most intra-California business travelers. In other markets the customer base is mostly leisure travelers. For business travelers, it's all about schedule. In Seattle, business travelers choose Alaska. In Dallas, they choose American. The airlines I don't understand are the ones which dominate no markets with high frequency service, making it very hard for them to attract business travelers.


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