New Flights including Mint from EWR to LAX/SFO
Jul 27, 2020, 8:28 am
#76
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,485
[Redacted quote which has since been edited by a moderator]
[Removed personal comment]
You can't change history no matter how many seat maps you look up.
The fact that you said 5 seat were sold for EWR-CHS's inaugural flight and they actually had 36 and 14 on the R/T flights should tell you that your method of going by seat map is terrible.
The big change since last year is they are selling Basic economy fares now. That fare level does not allow seat selection. And ever since they included no change fee for all fare levels, most people are probably buying basic economy. I guess you haven't caught on to that change yet.
EWR-SRQ is not for sale in August, because they are delaying the opening of that station until September. JFK-SRQ is facing the same delay.
Their moves at JFK/EWR are strategic in nature. They have the money to make a move right now to set up their network for years to come. The new adds out of NYC will undoubtedly see frequency reductions as long as demand is bare minimum in NYC. But they will stick around and be given every opportunity to work.
Do you know we have a 14 day quarantine right now? If you want to see what NYC demand looks like, just take a look at CF's latest post on schedule updates https://crankyflier.com/2020/07/27/m...ts-its-course/. Guess what, all the legacies are making huge slashes to NYC schedule also.
And this is probably going to tee you up even more, since you are so offended by JetBlue adding to DL fortress hubs. They are going up to 4x daily on JFK-ATL and JFK-RDU long term from 2x previously. Maybe you should start looking at those seat maps also.
Their NYC buildup is real. Aside from FLL-SEA and MCO-SFO, the rest of the 30 flights may or may not ever start. Those are not particularly important. I've been pretty consistent in saying that. If the bookings don't look good by middle of September, they will push back those flights. Most of the bookings these days have been real close in. All the data show that. There is no reason to cancel or push back a route any earlier than that.
He seemed to have missed that using seat map is a terrible idea given the discrepancy between his EWR-CHS numbers and how many people actually showed up to the flight.
[Removed personal comment]
You can't change history no matter how many seat maps you look up.
The fact that you said 5 seat were sold for EWR-CHS's inaugural flight and they actually had 36 and 14 on the R/T flights should tell you that your method of going by seat map is terrible.
The big change since last year is they are selling Basic economy fares now. That fare level does not allow seat selection. And ever since they included no change fee for all fare levels, most people are probably buying basic economy. I guess you haven't caught on to that change yet.
EWR-SRQ is not for sale in August, because they are delaying the opening of that station until September. JFK-SRQ is facing the same delay.
Their moves at JFK/EWR are strategic in nature. They have the money to make a move right now to set up their network for years to come. The new adds out of NYC will undoubtedly see frequency reductions as long as demand is bare minimum in NYC. But they will stick around and be given every opportunity to work.
Do you know we have a 14 day quarantine right now? If you want to see what NYC demand looks like, just take a look at CF's latest post on schedule updates https://crankyflier.com/2020/07/27/m...ts-its-course/. Guess what, all the legacies are making huge slashes to NYC schedule also.
And this is probably going to tee you up even more, since you are so offended by JetBlue adding to DL fortress hubs. They are going up to 4x daily on JFK-ATL and JFK-RDU long term from 2x previously. Maybe you should start looking at those seat maps also.
Their NYC buildup is real. Aside from FLL-SEA and MCO-SFO, the rest of the 30 flights may or may not ever start. Those are not particularly important. I've been pretty consistent in saying that. If the bookings don't look good by middle of September, they will push back those flights. Most of the bookings these days have been real close in. All the data show that. There is no reason to cancel or push back a route any earlier than that.
It's hard to take you seriously with the obvious emotion you seem to hold for this topic as well as the fact that you're attempting to assess load factors by looking at seat maps. Did you happen to see what the load factors were for other airlines operating the same routes?
Last edited by NewbieRunner; Aug 4, 2020 at 2:33 pm
Jul 27, 2020, 8:49 am
#77
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 64
It's rare to find someone this obsessed about another airline to actually look up their seat chart before every flight. You said they were never starting these flights and they clearly did. Get over it. You can't change history no matter how many seat maps you look up.
The fact that you said 5 seat were sold for EWR-CHS's inaugural flight and they actually had 36 and 14 on the R/T flights should tell you that your method of going by seat map is terrible.
The big change since last year is they are selling Basic economy fares now. That fare level does not allow seat selection. And ever since they included no change fee for all fare levels, most people are probably buying basic economy. I guess you haven't caught on to that change yet.
EWR-SRQ is not for sale in August, because they are delaying the opening of that station until September. JFK-SRQ is facing the same delay.
Their moves at JFK/EWR are strategic in nature. They have the money to make a move right now to set up their network for years to come. The new adds out of NYC will undoubtedly see frequency reductions as long as demand is bare minimum in NYC. But they will stick around and be given every opportunity to work.
Do you know we have a 14 day quarantine right now? If you want to see what NYC demand looks like, just take a look at CF's latest post on schedule updates https://crankyflier.com/2020/07/27/m...ts-its-course/. Guess what, all the legacies are making huge slashes to NYC schedule also.
And this is probably going to tee you up even more, since you are so offended by JetBlue adding to DL fortress hubs. They are going up to 4x daily on JFK-ATL and JFK-RDU long term from 2x previously. Maybe you should start looking at those seat maps also.
Their NYC buildup is real. Aside from FLL-SEA and MCO-SFO, the rest of the 30 flights may or may not ever start. Those are not particularly important. I've been pretty consistent in saying that. If the bookings don't look good by middle of September, they will push back those flights. Most of the bookings these days have been real close in. All the data show that. There is no reason to cancel or push back a route any earlier than that.
He seemed to have missed that using seat map is a terrible idea given the discrepancy between his EWR-CHS numbers and how many people actually showed up to the flight.
The fact that you said 5 seat were sold for EWR-CHS's inaugural flight and they actually had 36 and 14 on the R/T flights should tell you that your method of going by seat map is terrible.
The big change since last year is they are selling Basic economy fares now. That fare level does not allow seat selection. And ever since they included no change fee for all fare levels, most people are probably buying basic economy. I guess you haven't caught on to that change yet.
EWR-SRQ is not for sale in August, because they are delaying the opening of that station until September. JFK-SRQ is facing the same delay.
Their moves at JFK/EWR are strategic in nature. They have the money to make a move right now to set up their network for years to come. The new adds out of NYC will undoubtedly see frequency reductions as long as demand is bare minimum in NYC. But they will stick around and be given every opportunity to work.
Do you know we have a 14 day quarantine right now? If you want to see what NYC demand looks like, just take a look at CF's latest post on schedule updates https://crankyflier.com/2020/07/27/m...ts-its-course/. Guess what, all the legacies are making huge slashes to NYC schedule also.
And this is probably going to tee you up even more, since you are so offended by JetBlue adding to DL fortress hubs. They are going up to 4x daily on JFK-ATL and JFK-RDU long term from 2x previously. Maybe you should start looking at those seat maps also.
Their NYC buildup is real. Aside from FLL-SEA and MCO-SFO, the rest of the 30 flights may or may not ever start. Those are not particularly important. I've been pretty consistent in saying that. If the bookings don't look good by middle of September, they will push back those flights. Most of the bookings these days have been real close in. All the data show that. There is no reason to cancel or push back a route any earlier than that.
He seemed to have missed that using seat map is a terrible idea given the discrepancy between his EWR-CHS numbers and how many people actually showed up to the flight.
Last edited by DLSuites; Jul 27, 2020 at 9:02 am
Jul 27, 2020, 8:51 am
#78
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Jul 27, 2020, 8:57 am
#79
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Jul 27, 2020, 9:25 am
#80
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Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 64
how many people bought a ticket and how many people non revved = the total number of people on the flight. But lets not get caught up on the first flight. Any future flight has no more than a few seats sold. Its a route they have cut back on and will eventually give up on altogether, unless they want to throw a 190 on it or wait for the 220. When I see 3 seats 'taken' its a pretty good indication the flight is not doing well. But, according to tphaung, blue never fails at anything.
I'll check back in a few days, we'll see what else gets reduced.
I'll check back in a few days, we'll see what else gets reduced.
Jul 27, 2020, 9:34 am
#81
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how many people bought a ticket and how many people non revved = the total number of people on the flight. But lets not get caught up on the first flight. Any future flight has no more than a few seats sold. Its a route they have cut back on and will eventually give up on altogether, unless they want to throw a 190 on it or wait for the 220. When I see 3 seats 'taken' its a pretty good indication the flight is not doing well. But, according to tphaung, blue never fails at anything.
I'll check back in a few days, we'll see what else gets reduced.
I'll check back in a few days, we'll see what else gets reduced.
Jul 27, 2020, 10:02 am
#82
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Would you like to cite the airlines that are currently doing well on any routes? AA and UA may have a handful of flights that are profitable on an irregular basis, but the reality is that every airline in the country is currently hemorrhaging money faster than they ever have.
-J.
Jul 27, 2020, 10:57 am
#83
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,485
In your very own words, mint stuff didn't make it to day 1.
They were running 4x on BOS-ATL pre-COVID and 2x on JFK-ATL. Now with COVID, they are obviously running less. Why would they need to offer the same number of flights as DL on NYC-ATL? That's like saying Delta needs to fly as much as JetBlue from NYC to DR. It doesn't make any sense.
Point is you used seat map to judge how many seats are sold when the reality is seat map does not provide that info when most of the seats are sold as basic economy. Seriously, this is for your own good. Airlines will add and remove routes as they see fit. Spending all day on seat maps due to a grudge is not a great way to live life.
But, according to tphaung, blue never fails at anything.
I have not said anything like that. I said NYC adds are strategic stuff they will keep around. The other stuff will get canned if the bookings are not there.
Which is pointless because every airline is cutting more flights every week. It's not a JetBlue phenomenon. We are in a pandemic and have a 14 day quarantine in NY/NJ right now. See how much DL cut in BOS/NYC just this past week and same with UA and AA. Normal stuff these days.
What he doesn't seem to understand is that there is very high fix cost in parking aircraft and paying pilots/FA to stay at home. Fuel prices are not high. And now they've committed to adding all this flights with their AA partnership. AA is giving them slots to fly more. And they've committed to no furlough for pilots in exchange for allowing this AA codeshare. The break even cost for these flights are really not high at the moment.
JetBlue had the second lowest debts in the industry before this started. So they are using that to gain importantly slots and gate access that cost a lot of money to acquire normally. I don't know if any of this will work out, but they are taking a shot to be relevant in NY/NJ. The NY/NJ stuff is not a 2 or 3 months mirage. And for customers, we will just have more choices, which is always good.
They will lose on JFK-ATL just like they did with BOS-ATL. I remember how loud they were about this route and look what happened, even pre-COVID. They couldn't make that route work. They went from 5 or 6 daily 320's down to 2 or 3 190's. Even 4 daily flights JFK to ATL is nothing compared to what DL offers out of NYC to ATL. So, even if they can survive with 4 flights, its very insignificant. LOL. Give it up JetBlue. Your feeble attempt at these routes and DL strongholds will fail. For this purpose, the seat mapper is accurate enough.
how many people bought a ticket and how many people non revved = the total number of people on the flight. But lets not get caught up on the first flight. Any future flight has no more than a few seats sold. Its a route they have cut back on and will eventually give up on altogether, unless they want to throw a 190 on it or wait for the 220. When I see 3 seats 'taken' its a pretty good indication the flight is not doing well.
But, according to tphaung, blue never fails at anything.
I'll check back in a few days, we'll see what else gets reduced.
Would you like to cite the airlines that are currently doing well on any routes? AA and UA may have a handful of flights that are profitable on an irregular basis, but the reality is that every airline in the country is currently hemorrhaging money faster than they ever have.
JetBlue had the second lowest debts in the industry before this started. So they are using that to gain importantly slots and gate access that cost a lot of money to acquire normally. I don't know if any of this will work out, but they are taking a shot to be relevant in NY/NJ. The NY/NJ stuff is not a 2 or 3 months mirage. And for customers, we will just have more choices, which is always good.
Jul 27, 2020, 11:18 am
#84
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Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 64
lets take a closer look at JFK - MSP. Service starts August 6th. Looks to be AROUND 5 seats taken. The next day...a total of 2 seats taken. What actually winds up on these flights will invariably be more due to non revs, but those numbers are quite laughable. A Cessna might be a better plane capacity wise for this one particular DL stronghold.
Jul 27, 2020, 11:40 am
#85
Join Date: Aug 2006
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lets take a closer look at JFK - MSP. Service starts August 6th. Looks to be AROUND 5 seats taken. The next day...a total of 2 seats taken. What actually winds up on these flights will invariably be more due to non revs, but those numbers are quite laughable. A Cessna might be a better plane capacity wise for this one particular DL stronghold.
Jul 27, 2020, 3:38 pm
#87
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Jul 28, 2020, 6:40 am
#88
Join Date: Feb 2010
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I don't understand the thing with the seat maps, it is not a true picture. Non-rev's don't show up, UM's don't show up their seats are always blocked anyway. Speaking of blocked seats everyone could be full. Mosaics switch flights all the time their best benefit and then the low fare thing (which I don't pay attention) seat assignments are delayed until a day or two before departure?
I think it is a good move for B6, kinda of like what they did for London and future plans. Speaking of future I'm really interested in what the C-Series, I mean A220 will do for them.
I think it is a good move for B6, kinda of like what they did for London and future plans. Speaking of future I'm really interested in what the C-Series, I mean A220 will do for them.
Jul 28, 2020, 7:08 am
#89
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,485
They are getting the first A220 this year, followed by 7 in 2021 and 8 in 2022. I would imagine they will be very concentrated in JFK/BOS to start off. Once 2023 rolls around, they will be getting them a lot quicker as E90 goes out of service. I can see them creating an A220 base in LAX since they are looking to build an operation out there. I would be pretty excited to try it out. Although, that probably means I need to trek out to JFK. I doubt EWR is getting them early.
Jul 28, 2020, 11:24 pm
#90
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They are getting the first A220 this year, followed by 7 in 2021 and 8 in 2022. I would imagine they will be very concentrated in JFK/BOS to start off. Once 2023 rolls around, they will be getting them a lot quicker as E90 goes out of service. I can see them creating an A220 base in LAX since they are looking to build an operation out there. I would be pretty excited to try it out. Although, that probably means I need to trek out to JFK. I doubt EWR is getting them early.