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-   -   Thinking of switching to Delta (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/jetblue-trueblue/2000890-thinking-switching-delta.html)

Traveler_boy_25 Jan 28, 2020 5:53 am
Originally Posted by synzero (Post 32003237)
I've been a B6 flyer since the beginning; I even did the October 2009 all you can jet promotion - now that was a fun month of flying all over the country. I even ended up going to one city twice. What I see is a decline in the soft product which is going to have a delayed impact on customer satisfaction. Most people are still going to report positive satisfaction because of the hard product plus memories of the way things used to be. I had stopped flying B6 regularly when I moved out of NYC but just started flying it again a lot this past year for work, and that’s when, perhaps through bad luck, I ran into a series of issues which I mentioned in my original post. The problem for me is not the specific issues but what it says about the attitude of management.

Basically it comes down to whether or not management thinks the way to get profitable is by nickel and diming both customers and employees, or is it by being efficient yet realizing that, as the famous quality control expert W Edwards Deming used to say: price is not cost - that is to say, sometimes being cheap can be much more expensive in the long run. The former attitude results in long-term gradual decline; the latter attitude is the way to sustainable success.

I'm reminded of this famous Deming story I read when I was much younger. He was called to this textile factory to advise them about how to improve productivity. A few months earlier, productivity had dropped but they couldn't figure out why. They had put up signs on the factory floor exhorting the seamstresses to work harder. It hadn't worked. He asked them; have you actually spoken with them about why? They said: er, no.

He went to the floor and asked the seamstresses if anything had changed a few months ago. Yes, they said, for the last few months they had to deal with rethreading their machines a lot more frequently because the thread kept breaking. So, Deming went to the purchasing department and asked them if anything had changed a few months ago: they said yes, management had come through demanding cost cutting so they switched from the ten cent thread to the nine cent thread.

Cost is not the price tag: this is something better managers understand. That’s why I’m switching, and why I’m willing to suffer for a year to get Platinum Medallion. For my purposes, since I buy my flights a couple months ahead, I think I've got a decent shot at Comfort+ at booking so I don't need to rely on upgrades closer to departure. But even if it weren’t for that, I would still switch.
You summed it up perfectly! B6 used to be such a fabulous airline and they were all that I would fly. I won't fly them anymore because I do not feel valued, the flights are usually delayed or cancelled, no lounges, most expensive fee for checked bags, most of the terminals are old and dated, and small route network . DL on the other hand makes you feel valued and has wonderful customer service, excellent lounges, great medallion program, good fleet, excellent route map, on-time and reliable. You are making a good choice in switching!

GW McLintock Jan 28, 2020 9:15 am
Originally Posted by synzero (Post 32003237)
...
Cost is not the price tag: this is something better managers understand. That’s why I’m switching, and why I’m willing to suffer for a year to get Platinum Medallion. For my purposes, since I buy my flights a couple months ahead, I think I've got a decent shot at Comfort+ at booking so I don't need to rely on upgrades closer to departure. But even if it weren’t for that, I would still switch.
It sounds like you've really thought this through. If I were in your shoes, I'd do the same thing. I have seen first hand the decline in morale, and it isn't fun for anyone. Actions speak much louder than words, and many flight attendants say they still love their job; I haven't heard any crew say, "that was a great flight," in years.

-J.

tphuang Jan 28, 2020 1:48 pm
Originally Posted by synzero (Post 32003237)
I've been a B6 flyer since the beginning; I even did the October 2009 all you can jet promotion - now that was a fun month of flying all over the country. I even ended up going to one city twice. What I see is a decline in the soft product which is going to have a delayed impact on customer satisfaction. Most people are still going to report positive satisfaction because of the hard product plus memories of the way things used to be. I had stopped flying B6 regularly when I moved out of NYC but just started flying it again a lot this past year for work, and that’s when, perhaps through bad luck, I ran into a series of issues which I mentioned in my original post. The problem for me is not the specific issues but what it says about the attitude of management.

Basically it comes down to whether or not management thinks the way to get profitable is by nickel and diming both customers and employees, or is it by being efficient yet realizing that, as the famous quality control expert W Edwards Deming used to say: price is not cost - that is to say, sometimes being cheap can be much more expensive in the long run. The former attitude results in long-term gradual decline; the latter attitude is the way to sustainable success.

I'm reminded of this famous Deming story I read when I was much younger. He was called to this textile factory to advise them about how to improve productivity. A few months earlier, productivity had dropped but they couldn't figure out why. They had put up signs on the factory floor exhorting the seamstresses to work harder. It hadn't worked. He asked them; have you actually spoken with the seamstresses about why their productivity dropped? They said: er, no.

He went to the floor and asked the seamstresses if anything had changed a few months before. Yes, they said, for the last few months they had to deal with rethreading their machines a lot more frequently because the thread kept breaking. So, Deming went to the purchasing department and asked them if anything had changed a few months earlier: they said yes, management had come through demanding cost cutting so they switched from the ten cent thread to the nine cent thread.

Cost is not the price tag: this is something better managers understand. That’s why I’m switching, and why I’m willing to suffer for a year to get Platinum Medallion. For my purposes, since I buy my flights a couple months ahead, I think I've got a decent shot at Comfort+ at booking so I don't need to rely on upgrades closer to departure. But even if it weren’t for that, I would still switch.
I wasn't talking about upgrades to y+. I was talking about first class upgrades. On aa and ua, you can select y+ at booking at time of booking. You don't need to get upgraded to y+. Of the 3 legacy airlines, DL has imo the worst incentives for ff. I am saying this as a star alliance ff.

As for the other stuff, I guess we will have to see. The bad on time performance, small route network and subpar operation are not exactly new issues. If there is customer satisfaction decline on a wide level, I am sure we will see that show up eventually in any of the measurables. If anything, their operation was even worse two years ago at the height of their contract negotiations with pilots. it has actually improved noticeably in 2019. And now maybe because flight attendants voted to form union due to deterior relationship with management, you are seeing worse customer service. I would have expected these things to show up in customer satisfaction scores by now. It would seem to me that ff are more unhappy these days than before. And that's something they need to address.

As for profit sharing, these things are calculated based on a formula from pilot negotiations with airlines. Delta pilots got a great deal when they signed it during tough times.

tphuang Jan 28, 2020 1:55 pm
Originally Posted by Traveler_boy_25 (Post 32003293)
You summed it up perfectly! B6 used to be such a fabulous airline and they were all that I would fly. I won't fly them anymore because I do not feel valued, the flights are usually delayed or cancelled, no lounges, most expensive fee for checked bags, most of the terminals are old and dated, and small route network . DL on the other hand makes you feel valued and has wonderful customer service, excellent lounges, great medallion program, good fleet, excellent route map, on-time and reliable. You are making a good choice in switching!
How is t5 older and more dated than t4? They have one of the highest completion rate of any airline in 2019. Mechanical related cancellations were down 70%. And their on time performance at JFK and Boston were just 1 to 2% worse than the airport average. There are things that are fair to be critical of them, but many of what you said there are not objective.

And yes, delta with their amazing network doesn't even fly to Hong Kong and Singapore. And there is reason sky miles is called sky pesos.

GW McLintock Jan 28, 2020 2:45 pm
Originally Posted by tphuang (Post 32005201)
How is t5 older and more dated than t4? They have one of the highest completion rate of any airline in 2019. Mechanical related cancellations were down 70%.
T5 is terribly designed. It was not built with the intention to grow it. The lack of moving walkways means you can be walking quite a ways to some gates, and it makes tight connections risky.

As for the mechanical related stuff, hah! They keep the completion factor at the expense of massive, massive delays. Last week alone they had an engine failure in GND (nearly a 10-hour delay) and a couple of other events resulting in delays over over 5 hours.

-J.

Traveler_boy_25 Jan 28, 2020 2:47 pm
Originally Posted by tphuang (Post 32005201)
How is t5 older and more dated than t4? They have one of the highest completion rate of any airline in 2019. Mechanical related cancellations were down 70%. And their on time performance at JFK and Boston were just 1 to 2% worse than the airport average. There are things that are fair to be critical of them, but many of what you said there are not objective.

And yes, delta with their amazing network doesn't even fly to Hong Kong and Singapore. And there is reason sky miles is called sky pesos.
T4 is massive, has plenty of food options and an amazing Sky Club. T5 has terrible food options and they closed the one lounge in there. Delta is number 2 for on-time performance while B6 is 9--that speaks for itself.

So DL doesn't go to 2 cities. That's why they have partners. DL goes to plenty of places that no other US Carrier goes to like Stuttgart, Lagos, and NIce.

MSYtoJFKagain Jan 28, 2020 4:21 pm
Having flown out of T4 and T5 a goodly bit recently, T4 is the better option aside from the security lines occasionally being awful. Much better food options and great layout. T5's food quality has suffered quite a lot recently. My go-to is to hit Shake Shack on my way to my gate and enjoy a smelly delicious hamburger as we take off.

tphuang Jan 28, 2020 8:08 pm
Originally Posted by Traveler_boy_25 (Post 32005380)
T4 is massive, has plenty of food options and an amazing Sky Club. T5 has terrible food options and they closed the one lounge in there. Delta is number 2 for on-time performance while B6 is 9--that speaks for itself.

So DL doesn't go to 2 cities. That's why they have partners. DL goes to plenty of places that no other US Carrier goes to like Stuttgart, Lagos, and NIce.
For people that fly domestic/Caribbean, sky club is not an option even if you fly first class. There are a lot of nice lounges in T4. But guess what, if you are not flying international Business class. You are not getting in. As for food options, it really depends on your preference. I'm actually a fan of Bar Veloce and have no interest in burgers. I really like the vibe in T5 and I almost never do connections.

Aside from that, nothing about food option + lounge has any relevance with age of the terminal. And you should know by now that T1 is getting expanded across T2/3 and T5 is getting expanded across T6/7. So over the next decade, these will be the newest and nicest terminals. I would be shocked if there isn't going to be some lounges opening up in T5. Hopefully, they will be accessible with pp.

As for OTP, again. You repeat the same thing from a few months ago which has no relevance here. It doesn't matter what DL's OTP at ATL/MSP/DTW/SLC are. To people in NYC, the only number that matters is the OTP at JFK/LGA/EWR. And to people in Boston, the only number that matters is OTP at BOS. And in these markets, JetBlue OTP is 1.5 to 2.5% worse than airport average. So to say that they only cancel or are late is factually false. If I fly JFK-LAX only. Why would I care about DL's OTP out of other cities?

DL and its partners map to Asia is pathetic. They are unworkable for anyone that does majority of their travel to non-Seoul/Shanghai part of Asia. HK and Singapore are 2 of the largest markets in the world and ST have far and away the least options there from North America amongst the 3 alliances.

GW McLintock Jan 28, 2020 8:44 pm
Originally Posted by tphuang (Post 32006316)
For people that fly domestic/Caribbean, sky club is not an option even if you fly first class. There are a lot of nice lounges in T4. But guess what, if you are not flying international Business class. You are not getting in.
I went to the Sky Club when flying MIA-HAV on a basic economy ticket :confused:

I was flying with cousins, who are both Diamond and have the Reserve cards, so I was one of their guests. I would venture to say that most Sky Club visitors are not on international J tickets, considering they have them at many airports that don't even have international service.

I also could have used either of my Delta Amex cards (at the time) to purchase a day pass. I know this rule has since changed (or will soon) and only the Platinum card will allow this.

Any type of lounge access is better than no lounge access at all -- at least that seems to be the consensus among frequent flyers. synzero provides a great example of this, as he is taking his business elsewhere and this was one of his primary reasons.

-J.

synzero Jan 29, 2020 1:52 am
Originally Posted by tphuang (Post 32005171)
I wasn't talking about upgrades to y+. I was talking about first class upgrades. On aa and ua, you can select y+ at booking at time of booking. You don't need to get upgraded to y+. Of the 3 legacy airlines, DL has imo the worst incentives for ff. I am saying this as a star alliance ff.

As for the other stuff, I guess we will have to see. The bad on time performance, small route network and subpar operation are not exactly new issues. If there is customer satisfaction decline on a wide level, I am sure we will see that show up eventually in any of the measurables. If anything, their operation was even worse two years ago at the height of their contract negotiations with pilots. it has actually improved noticeably in 2019. And now maybe because flight attendants voted to form union due to deterior relationship with management, you are seeing worse customer service. I would have expected these things to show up in customer satisfaction scores by now. It would seem to me that ff are more unhappy these days than before. And that's something they need to address.

As for profit sharing, these things are calculated based on a formula from pilot negotiations with airlines. Delta pilots got a great deal when they signed it during tough times.
Right, I knew what you were talking about re: upgrades. For my purposes Comfort+ is all I need, as I mentioned above. I just need room to work on my laptop; business class and first class are, for me, superfluous; I sleep well on planes and don’t need massive legroom or lie flat seats. Hence I don’t really care if it’s easier to get business or first class upgrades on AA or United.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by “you can select Y+ at time of booking” on AA or UA. You mean you can pay for it? Of course you can. And you can also do this on Delta. I’m saying as a Platinum Medallion you get *complimentary* upgrades to Comfort+ at the time of booking, for no extra charge. That’s worth a lot to me. Unless you’re saying you get those as elites on AA and UA - but my point is that Delta also has excellent customer service, great on time performance, and management that seems to be constantly moving the airline forwards, not backwards. My comment about Comfort+ upgrades is just that this will be my way of attempting to get all that AND JetBlue level legroom for free, not that this is some unique feature of Delta’s FF program.

As for AA and UA, I’m sure these airlines work for others. But if I’m complaining about JetBlue’s decline in customer service, it would take a hell of a lot to convince me to favor American “Oasis” Airlines or United “how many horror stories can we cram into one year” Airlines.

RWPrincess Jan 29, 2020 9:22 am
I practically live at T5 and even I know that T4 is better. That's not even a question in my opinion. It's much more modern with better food and shopping options than T5. If you're at one of the far gates, they will shuttle you to the other end of the terminal so you don't have to walk. I don't care about lounges so won't comment on that.

On my most recent flight out of T5, just before boarding B6 announced a gate change. I'm talking 5 min before boarding was set to begin after the GAs had been prepping us to board for the last 30 min. I forget the actual numbers but I think we had to move from Gate 8 over to Gate 2 or something like that. If you're familiar with T5 at all, you'll know that those 2 aren't in the same section of the terminal and require a walk to the other end of another part of the terminal. Not only was that a tone deaf move from JetBlue but it was also a hassle for all of us to get over there quickly with small children and luggage and such. I have a medical condition and can't just pick up quickly and run to another part of the terminal while pulling my suitcase with 5 min to spare. I imagine I'm not the only one out of 150 with this issue. And before I get know it all comments in response, there was absolutely nothing wrong with the existing aircraft. They simply decided to re-assign it to another flight and make my flight move gates. I also dread it whenever my flight is going out of Gate 22 or above. It's quite the hike from security when you have carry-on luggage, not to mention there is an uphill incline as well. And once you get into that section of the terminal, there are virtually no food options other than an occasional hot dog cart.

synzero Jan 29, 2020 11:28 am
Originally Posted by tphuang (Post 32006316)
For people that fly domestic/Caribbean, sky club is not an option even if you fly first class. There are a lot of nice lounges in T4. But guess what, if you are not flying international Business class. You are not getting in. As for food options, it really depends on your preference. I'm actually a fan of Bar Veloce and have no interest in burgers. I really like the vibe in T5 and I almost never do connections.

Aside from that, nothing about food option + lounge has any relevance with age of the terminal. And you should know by now that T1 is getting expanded across T2/3 and T5 is getting expanded across T6/7. So over the next decade, these will be the newest and nicest terminals. I would be shocked if there isn't going to be some lounges opening up in T5. Hopefully, they will be accessible with pp.
Just a comment on this -- I have an Amex Plat, of course, so I can access SkyClub on every flight, international or domestic, economy or not. So yeah, lounge access is part of the equation for me. Also, when the JFK Centurion Lounge opens, it will be in T4. Yet another reason. Honestly I was never much of a lounge guy until recently -- but I have to say it improves my overall travel experience a lot. Free food and drink, a nice place to work, a sense of serenity before the flight.

You know, if JetBlue improves again in the future, I'll happily switch back. Maybe when they expand T5 they'll make some improvements to the quality of the food, etc. However, right now it doesn't seem to even be on their radar at all -- they just don't seem to care. Naturally, things will change. Delta could go downhill, JetBlue could rebound ... will reconsider that when and if it happens.

Traveler_boy_25 Jan 29, 2020 12:27 pm
Originally Posted by tphuang (Post 32006316)
For people that fly domestic/Caribbean, sky club is not an option even if you fly first class. There are a lot of nice lounges in T4. But guess what, if you are not flying international Business class. You are not getting in. As for food options, it really depends on your preference. I'm actually a fan of Bar Veloce and have no interest in burgers. I really like the vibe in T5 and I almost never do connections.

Aside from that, nothing about food option + lounge has any relevance with age of the terminal. And you should know by now that T1 is getting expanded across T2/3 and T5 is getting expanded across T6/7. So over the next decade, these will be the newest and nicest terminals. I would be shocked if there isn't going to be some lounges opening up in T5. Hopefully, they will be accessible with pp.

As for OTP, again. You repeat the same thing from a few months ago which has no relevance here. It doesn't matter what DL's OTP at ATL/MSP/DTW/SLC are. To people in NYC, the only number that matters is the OTP at JFK/LGA/EWR. And to people in Boston, the only number that matters is OTP at BOS. And in these markets, JetBlue OTP is 1.5 to 2.5% worse than airport average. So to say that they only cancel or are late is factually false. If I fly JFK-LAX only. Why would I care about DL's OTP out of other cities?

DL and its partners map to Asia is pathetic. They are unworkable for anyone that does majority of their travel to non-Seoul/Shanghai part of Asia. HK and Singapore are 2 of the largest markets in the world and ST have far and away the least options there from North America amongst the 3 alliances.
I am not really sure what you are talking about in regards to the lounges. I fly domestic, Caribbean and international and have never once had an issue getting into the SkyClub.

Also I am not looking to discuss the OTP again, but if you only care about the city that you live in that I am glad that works for you. I know that planes come from all different cities and can be switched day of which affects OTP across the board. Also if you are traveling to various cities then you should also care what the OTP is in that city too.

tphuang Jan 30, 2020 6:50 pm
Originally Posted by GW McLintock (Post 32006401)
I went to the Sky Club when flying MIA-HAV on a basic economy ticket :confused:

I was flying with cousins, who are both Diamond and have the Reserve cards, so I was one of their guests. I would venture to say that most Sky Club visitors are not on international J tickets, considering they have them at many airports that don't even have international service.

I also could have used either of my Delta Amex cards (at the time) to purchase a day pass. I know this rule has since changed (or will soon) and only the Platinum card will allow this.

Any type of lounge access is better than no lounge access at all -- at least that seems to be the consensus among frequent flyers. synzero provides a great example of this, as he is taking his business elsewhere and this was one of his primary reasons.

-J.
Sure, a lot of people have their cards and get into the lounge that way. But I would say more people have priority pass type of card, which is what I have. Chase sapphire reserve is a much better value than any of the dedicated airline cards. The redemption on Chase Ultimate rewards is light years ahead of any of the airline co-branded cards, since you can redeem on any of the major alliances. And pp card access is world wide. None of these airline co-branded card will get my lounge access in Phuket airport or Madrid airport.

So given that I don't have DL card, their club access is meaningless to me unless I fly them internationally in business.

Yes, any type of lounge is better than none. Especially in cases where you are transiting, but it's less of a deal if you are not transiting. Especially for shorter flights. If I'm flying a < 2 hour flights, I want to get to airport an hour before my flight, go through TSA precheck and board. I don't think I've made any decisions in the past few years on which airlines I will fly on based on lounge access out of JFK.

Originally Posted by synzero (Post 32006966)
Right, I knew what you were talking about re: upgrades. For my purposes Comfort+ is all I need, as I mentioned above. I just need room to work on my laptop; business class and first class are, for me, superfluous; I sleep well on planes and don’t need massive legroom or lie flat seats. Hence I don’t really care if it’s easier to get business or first class upgrades on AA or United.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by “you can select Y+ at time of booking” on AA or UA. You mean you can pay for it? Of course you can. And you can also do this on Delta. I’m saying as a Platinum Medallion you get *complimentary* upgrades to Comfort+ at the time of booking, for no extra charge. That’s worth a lot to me. Unless you’re saying you get those as elites on AA and UA - but my point is that Delta also has excellent customer service, great on time performance, and management that seems to be constantly moving the airline forwards, not backwards. My comment about Comfort+ upgrades is just that this will be my way of attempting to get all that AND JetBlue level legroom for free, not that this is some unique feature of Delta’s FF program.

As for AA and UA, I’m sure these airlines work for others. But if I’m complaining about JetBlue’s decline in customer service, it would take a hell of a lot to convince me to favor American “Oasis” Airlines or United “how many horror stories can we cram into one year” Airlines.
If you are at platinum or above on AA, you can select Y+ for free at time of booking without needing to wait to get upgraded in there. DL might be the only airline in the world where adding 3 inch to the pitch and no width makes it a separate class and you need to wait for "upgrade".

AA and UA are not that bad. I've flown with them quite a few times. Not had any major issues. Then again, I never had any major issues with JetBlue either.

Originally Posted by synzero (Post 32008767)
Just a comment on this -- I have an Amex Plat, of course, so I can access SkyClub on every flight, international or domestic, economy or not. So yeah, lounge access is part of the equation for me. Also, when the JFK Centurion Lounge opens, it will be in T4. Yet another reason. Honestly I was never much of a lounge guy until recently -- but I have to say it improves my overall travel experience a lot. Free food and drink, a nice place to work, a sense of serenity before the flight.

You know, if JetBlue improves again in the future, I'll happily switch back. Maybe when they expand T5 they'll make some improvements to the quality of the food, etc. However, right now it doesn't seem to even be on their radar at all -- they just don't seem to care. Naturally, things will change. Delta could go downhill, JetBlue could rebound ... will reconsider that when and if it happens.
When they expand T5, any lounge they will have is likely to be PP lounge. Hard to imagine 2 centurion lounge in the same airport.

Originally Posted by Traveler_boy_25 (Post 32008991)
I am not really sure what you are talking about in regards to the lounges. I fly domestic, Caribbean and international and have never once had an issue getting into the SkyClub.

Also I am not looking to discuss the OTP again, but if you only care about the city that you live in that I am glad that works for you. I know that planes come from all different cities and can be switched day of which affects OTP across the board. Also if you are traveling to various cities then you should also care what the OTP is in that city too.
because you have their card. I don't have a card with skyclub access. Most people don't. Because it's a raw deal compared to CSR. When I had my AA card and CSR, I still ended up booking AA flights with CSR, because the reward is so much better. There is a reason legacy airlines make so much money off credit card. They are terrible deals for consumers.

You are only going to care about OTP on the flights that you fly on. Your example about transiting at other airport would apply, except the vast vast majority of JetBlue flights all touch JFK and BOS. I guess if you are used to transiting through ATL with DL, you'd care about their ATL OTP. But since JetBlue is either going to get you to Florida or Latin America directly or not at all, the only OTP that matters for you is their OTP on that direct flight.

synzero Jan 30, 2020 7:33 pm
Originally Posted by tphuang (Post 32014339)
Sure, a lot of people have their cards and get into the lounge that way. But I would say more people have priority pass type of card, which is what I have. Chase sapphire reserve is a much better value than any of the dedicated airline cards. The redemption on Chase Ultimate rewards is light years ahead of any of the airline co-branded cards, since you can redeem on any of the major alliances. And pp card access is world wide. None of these airline co-branded card will get my lounge access in Phuket airport or Madrid airport.

So given that I don't have DL card, their club access is meaningless to me unless I fly them internationally in business.
Amex Plat also gives SkyClub access. I also have the CSR but the Amex Plat has so many perks it is well worth it to me to carry as well, and honestly it's also easy for me to maximize the credits every year so the effective annual fee is only $50. For $50, having unlimited SkyClub access and Centurion Lounge access and so on is well worth it. I also have the CSR but honestly I use Amex Plat lounge access a lot more.

Originally Posted by tphuang (Post 32014339)
Yes, any type of lounge is better than none. Especially in cases where you are transiting, but it's less of a deal if you are not transiting. Especially for shorter flights. If I'm flying a < 2 hour flights, I want to get to airport an hour before my flight, go through TSA precheck and board. I don't think I've made any decisions in the past few years on which airlines I will fly on based on lounge access out of JFK.
I think this is largely subjective. I really love having a lounge to relax in before a flight, regardless of how short it is. It dramatically improves my peace of mind for the overall flight experience, just giving me this oasis of respite which helps improve my overall flight experience. It's a psychological thing. Plus, it saves me a meal, typically; I save maybe $10-$20 on food and drinks, which adds up over the course of the year.

Originally Posted by tphuang (Post 32014339)
If you are at platinum or above on AA, you can select Y+ for free at time of booking without needing to wait to get upgraded in there. DL might be the only airline in the world where adding 3 inch to the pitch and no width makes it a separate class and you need to wait for "upgrade".
Yes, that's what I'm saying. Delta Platinum and above has the same thing. Comfort+ is free at booking, you don't have to wait for an upgrade.

Originally Posted by tphuang (Post 32014339)
AA and UA are not that bad. I've flown with them quite a few times. Not had any major issues. Then again, I never had any major issues with JetBlue either.
AA is planning to retrofit every plane with the "Oasis" seats, plus the smallest bathrooms on any plane, 30" pitch in economy, no IFE, incredibly uncomfortable seats (based on reviews I've read). Why should I reward this with my loyalty?

UA has a terrible overall customer satisfaction rating. Also, they don't even fly into JFK, and I hate EWR.

Plus, SkyClubs are nice, and trivial to get access to (via the Amex Plat).

Originally Posted by tphuang (Post 32014339)
because you have their card. I don't have a card with skyclub access. Most people don't. Because it's a raw deal compared to CSR. When I had my AA card and CSR, I still ended up booking AA flights with CSR, because the reward is so much better. There is a reason legacy airlines make so much money off credit card. They are terrible deals for consumers.
Again, Amex Plat. Given all the perks which you can get for $50/year, it seems well worth it. But -- I can maximize the $200 airline credit pretty easily, because I do a lot of short haul within California and there are still workarounds if you do a lot of short haul.

I think the main argument against Delta for you is that you do a ton of Asia travel where SkyTeam isn't the right network. For me, I'm doing mostly domestic business travel and I want to also do mostly domestic personal travel. So Delta works well for me. We also occasionally go to Korea and Europe, maybe Japan once in a while. Honestly I really hate KAL which is the SkyTeam airline to Seoul, but you can't have everything. My main reason for hating KAL is no internet access AT ALL. So, for that I'll probably use Asiana, so oh well, it doesn't fit with Delta, that's OK. Supposedly KAL is adding internet in the next few years so eventually I'll be able to fly KAL again. But I can understand why Delta doesn't work for you. For me, it seems to be a pretty good candidate for an airline to try out.


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