A220s and more A321s in...E190 being phased out

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Aug 29, 2018, 11:12 am

#31

redct

Join Date: Nov 2010

Location: SFO

Posts: 273

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSYtoJFKagain

Could we see something like the BA1/3 LON->SNN->JFK run?

The A223 has SNN in range of Boston I think, probably JFK as well. In a low density Mint config, I could see that being a very viable product. (Let me burn my miles on this please)

The nominal range of the A220-300 is 5920km according to Airbus which opens up a lot of options. I made a map with 5920km and 5328km (90% of nominal range) bands.

The A223 can "safely" hit DUB, EDI, LHR in the UK and LIS in Portugal (assuming they'd want to add BOS-LIS on top of TAP Portugal). If you ignore the 10% margin or assume they will come up with some long range version of the A223, they could hit Bergen and Oslo from BOS (competing with Norwegian now), or even Lima and Quito (going south) or Anchorage (going west).

writerguyfl, hi55us, mikesyr18 and 1 others like this.

Aug 29, 2018, 11:39 am

#32

mikesyr18

Join Date: Mar 2017

Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.

Posts: 2,035

Quote:

Originally Posted by moulder3

I'm legitimately shocked that so many people on this forum prefer a 2x3 config vs 2x2. Who the heck wants middle seats? ...

Many routes are from or to small airports, so I could imagine these plans aren't always packed full.

My point being... If the plane isn't full, you might be able to move a seat over to get away from your overweight stranger who "covers" part of your assigned seat/personal space.

Aug 29, 2018, 11:46 am

#33

tphuang

Join Date: Dec 2016

Posts: 1,485

The issue is A223 can't take off from LCY. But A220-100 can and they have the option to convert. In fact, it has already done test runs from LCY to JFK in all J config.
https://aeronauticsonline.com/bombar...y-jfk-nonstop/
https://leehamnews.com/2017/08/09/cs...-city-airport/
If they can put in a 44 seat (1 by 1) config on the BOS/JFK-LCY market, it would be a game changer. Would love to see that happen.

Aug 29, 2018, 12:10 pm

#34

MSYtoJFKagain

Join Date: Jul 2014

Location: Cape Cod

Programs: Free agent

Posts: 1,535

That would be a HUGE win for B6. I don't think they'd be able to get a gate for it though. I'd expect BA to go this route though, given that it eliminates the annoyance of the Shannon stop.

Yoshi212 likes this.

Aug 29, 2018, 2:40 pm

#35

redct

Join Date: Nov 2010

Location: SFO

Posts: 273

That would be amazing! The 100 could even do the whole thing on a heavier config with good winds - right at the edge of the range.

Aug 30, 2018, 1:27 am

#36

diburning

Join Date: Jun 2012

Location: New England

Programs: American Gold, Marriott Gold, Hilton Silver

Posts: 5,638

I can't wait to fly these routes in the winter. I'd LOVE a detour to see Gander, Goose Bay, or Bangor

Aug 30, 2018, 11:53 am

#37

sbm12

A FlyerTalk Posting Legend

Join Date: Apr 2001

Location: PSM

Posts: 69,232

Quote:

Originally Posted by redct

That would be amazing! The 100 could even do the whole thing on a heavier config with good winds - right at the edge of the range.

In an all-premium config it is not nearly as close to the edge of the range; there's a comfortable cushion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesyr18

Many routes are from or to small airports, so I could imagine these plans aren't always packed full.

US load factors were over 85% in July. That was a record but expecting a middle seat is a losing battle. JetBlue isn't going to target markets that it expects will only deliver 60-70% full flights. No airline reasonably will these days.

Jan 3, 2019, 11:30 am

#38

jaysona

Join Date: Aug 2010

Location: Why? Why? Zed! / Why? You? Elle! / Gee! Are You!

Programs: Irrelevant

Posts: 3,543

JetBlue firms A220 order

Quote:

JetBlue chief executive Robin Hayes states: "The impressive range and economics of the highly efficient A220... will help ensure we deliver the best onboard experience to customers and meet our long-term financial targets as we continue disciplined growth into the future."

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...-order-454768/

Jan 14, 2019, 9:40 am

#39

hi55us

Join Date: Jun 2014

Location: PSC

Programs: Hilton Diamond/IHG Platinum/DL Plutononium

Posts: 1,728

https://thepointsguy.com/news/airbus-a220-etops-180/

Looks like the A220 is now certified to fly to Europe. This is huge.

Jan 14, 2019, 3:11 pm

#40

jaysona

Join Date: Aug 2010

Location: Why? Why? Zed! / Why? You? Elle! / Gee! Are You!

Programs: Irrelevant

Posts: 3,543

Quote:

Originally Posted by hi55us

https://thepointsguy.com/news/airbus-a220-etops-180/

Looks like the A220 is now certified to fly to Europe. This is huge.

At the moment only a Canadian operator would be able to fly to Europe from North America since the only ETOPS approval at this point is from TCCA. B6 requires FAA certification (pending) in order to fly the A220 to Europe. Seeing as there are no Canadian A220 operators at the moment, this certification is nothing more than just a technical update of the TCCA TCDS, but still progression in the right direction for the airframe. ^

YUL likes this.

Jan 4, 2021, 7:53 am

#41

moulder3

Join Date: Aug 2004

Programs: SPG Lifetime Platinum, Hyatt Diamond, JetBlue Mosaic, AA Platinum, National Executive Elite

Posts: 599

Quote:

Originally Posted by moulder3

My assessment of the B6 E190 being best-in-class for domestic economy is simply from a passenger's perspective. I get that the new A220 is more fuel-efficient and that's certainly good for the environment, but supposedly the new E190v2 would've also solved that problem. I'm legitimately shocked that so many people on this forum prefer a 2x3 config vs 2x2. Who the heck wants middle seats? Both planes have nearly identical seat width so there's nothing to be gained there. And based on how B6 has gone anti-passenger with the A320 retrofit (crappier seats, less legroom & abysmal SpaceFlex bathrooms), you honestly think they won't do the same to the A220? So the only *real* benefit is that the A220 has a longer range?
For that you're giving up:
1. no middle seats
2. padded seats
3. *probably* reduced legroom in A220 (based on A320 & A321 retrofits)
4. *probably* getting SpaceFlex or similar tiny bathrooms

Again, I get this is a win for B6 & probably their shareholders...but why on earth are frequent travelers celebrating this announcement?

Now that we know what JetBlue's A220 interior looks like and that it includes the awful SpaceFlex bathrooms, we can all stop pretending this plane is an upgrade from the customer's POV, right? All of the downgrades I predicted back in 2018 have come true. Aside from upgraded TVs, customers now have to deal with all four items above, plus the plane also has 40% more seats means boarding won't be 15 minutes anymore. Also, not for nothing, but there's no way the E190 had 32" core seats--it felt almost like 34" (much more spacious than core seats on A321 & A320), and the EMS seats on E190 are 39" while the A220 looks to be only 35".

GW McLintock likes this.

Jan 4, 2021, 8:26 am

#42

MSYtoJFKagain

Join Date: Jul 2014

Location: Cape Cod

Programs: Free agent

Posts: 1,535

Bigger bins, bigger range, less chance of MX, and much cheaper to operate. Add in the better TVs and I'm a happy customer. I've flown the DL version and it is great in economy and first.

Jan 4, 2021, 8:49 am

#43

moulder3

Join Date: Aug 2004

Programs: SPG Lifetime Platinum, Hyatt Diamond, JetBlue Mosaic, AA Platinum, National Executive Elite

Posts: 599

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSYtoJFKagain

I've flown the DL version and it is great in economy and first.

How is the DL A220 is comparable to B6? Delta flies a 110 seat variant with large, spacious bathrooms that (I believe) also have a window. I would love for JetBlue to have that variant: a ~110 seat plane without SpaceFlex bathrooms and a real galley!

Jan 4, 2021, 9:22 am

#44

tphuang

Join Date: Dec 2016

Posts: 1,485

Quote:

Originally Posted by moulder3

DL's A220-100 has 110 seat. DL's A220-300 has 130 seats, including 12 FC seats. JetBlue A220-300 has 140 seats, with 0 FC seat. They have same number of Y+. JetBlue's Y/Y+ will continue to have greater pitch than DL's A220-300.

I would agree if you can fly in DL's FC, it will be better than JetBlue's Y.

In terms of customer experience, I don't see how A220-300 would not be the most popular aircraft very soon. I don't care about window on bathroom. Why does that matter? less galley space would annoying FA. It doesn't affect passengers.

Jan 4, 2021, 9:30 am

#45

MSYtoJFKagain

Join Date: Jul 2014

Location: Cape Cod

Programs: Free agent

Posts: 1,535

They have the same seat widths and every other metric I listed about is the same between the variants. I understand that you have some sort of bone to pick but the economics are fantastic and the perceived loss of anything except very mild inconveniences (even for road warriors) seems to be only in your eyes. Ending up in a middle seat on an A220 would be preferable to getting delayed or stranded over and over because an old E190 picked up yet another maintenance issue on a 40 minute hop from Boston. If the seats are anything like Delta's they're wide, comfortable, and have better back support than the soft E190 seats. Ship those E190s off, they had their day.

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