Family says JetBlue booted them from flight over a birthday cake
May 15, 2017, 11:08 am
#16
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Treasure Coast, FL
Programs: DL Diamond, Marriott LT Plat, HH Diamond, Avis Preferred Plus, National Executive
Posts: 4,578
More from Jetblue today:
The airline disputed Burke's account, saying the family placed the cake in an overhead bin meant for "safety and emergency equipment" and declined to remove it even after multiple requests.
"The customers became agitated, cursed and yelled at the crew, and made false accusations about a crew member's fitness to fly," Doug McGraw, a spokesman for the airline, said in a statement.
"After the customers refused to speak with a team leader about the situation, the Port Authority Police Department was called and the entire aircraft deplaned. The Captain determined the customers' behaviour demonstrated a risk for additional escalation in air and would not be allowed to fly."
McGraw added that the video currently "circulating does not depict the entire incident and only starts after the objectionable behaviour occurred and law enforcement was called."
The airline disputed Burke's account, saying the family placed the cake in an overhead bin meant for "safety and emergency equipment" and declined to remove it even after multiple requests.
"The customers became agitated, cursed and yelled at the crew, and made false accusations about a crew member's fitness to fly," Doug McGraw, a spokesman for the airline, said in a statement.
"After the customers refused to speak with a team leader about the situation, the Port Authority Police Department was called and the entire aircraft deplaned. The Captain determined the customers' behaviour demonstrated a risk for additional escalation in air and would not be allowed to fly."
McGraw added that the video currently "circulating does not depict the entire incident and only starts after the objectionable behaviour occurred and law enforcement was called."
May 15, 2017, 11:52 am
#17
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 72
More from Jetblue today:
The airline disputed Burke's account, saying the family placed the cake in an overhead bin meant for "safety and emergency equipment" and declined to remove it even after multiple requests.
"The customers became agitated, cursed and yelled at the crew, and made false accusations about a crew member's fitness to fly," Doug McGraw, a spokesman for the airline, said in a statement.
"After the customers refused to speak with a team leader about the situation, the Port Authority Police Department was called and the entire aircraft deplaned. The Captain determined the customers' behaviour demonstrated a risk for additional escalation in air and would not be allowed to fly."
McGraw added that the video currently "circulating does not depict the entire incident and only starts after the objectionable behaviour occurred and law enforcement was called."
The airline disputed Burke's account, saying the family placed the cake in an overhead bin meant for "safety and emergency equipment" and declined to remove it even after multiple requests.
"The customers became agitated, cursed and yelled at the crew, and made false accusations about a crew member's fitness to fly," Doug McGraw, a spokesman for the airline, said in a statement.
"After the customers refused to speak with a team leader about the situation, the Port Authority Police Department was called and the entire aircraft deplaned. The Captain determined the customers' behaviour demonstrated a risk for additional escalation in air and would not be allowed to fly."
McGraw added that the video currently "circulating does not depict the entire incident and only starts after the objectionable behaviour occurred and law enforcement was called."
May 15, 2017, 12:57 pm
#18
Join Date: Feb 2014
Programs: UA Plat, SPG Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 677
Questions for Jet Blue:
1. If unsubstantiated allegations are so bad, then why are you making them about your customers?
2. Are you interpreting the words "have you been drinking?" as an allegation?
3. Do you have proof that the alleged allegation was in fact, incorrect? Did you give the FA a blood alcohol test?
4. Do you have any proof whatsoever to back up your allegations against these customers, or are you just taking the word of your employees who were contradicted, on video, by law enforcement personnel?
May 15, 2017, 2:52 pm
#19
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: YVR, HNL
Programs: AS 75k, UA peon, BA Bronze, AC E50k, Marriott Plat, HH Diamond, Fairmont Plat (RIP)
Posts: 7,832
In this one paragraph, Jet Blue levels three completely unsubstantiated allegations against their customers (that they A) became agitated, B) cursed, and C) yelled). They then complain about an apparently unsubstantiated "allegation" that the customers made about one FA being unfit to fly.
Questions for Jet Blue:
1. If unsubstantiated allegations are so bad, then why are you making them about your customers?
2. Are you interpreting the words "have you been drinking?" as an allegation?
3. Do you have proof that the alleged allegation was in fact, incorrect? Did you give the FA a blood alcohol test?
4. Do you have any proof whatsoever to back up your allegations against these customers, or are you just taking the word of your employees who were contradicted, on video, by law enforcement personnel?
Questions for Jet Blue:
1. If unsubstantiated allegations are so bad, then why are you making them about your customers?
2. Are you interpreting the words "have you been drinking?" as an allegation?
3. Do you have proof that the alleged allegation was in fact, incorrect? Did you give the FA a blood alcohol test?
4. Do you have any proof whatsoever to back up your allegations against these customers, or are you just taking the word of your employees who were contradicted, on video, by law enforcement personnel?
2) Yes, by his own words. He perceived her behaviour to be 'not normal' so he thought that might have been because she had been drinking and he asked her as much.
3) So ridiculous it doesn't even merit a response.
4) Yes. By the father's own admission.
"... Cameron Burke told ABC7 News. "I had approached them, and I said everything was fine, and she said, 'Sir, this does not involve you.' When she told me I had been non-compliant, then I said 'Ma'am, had you been drinking?' Because her behavior was not normal."
http://www.seattlepi.com/news/articl...a-11145030.php
Last edited by Finkface; May 15, 2017 at 2:58 pm
May 15, 2017, 3:05 pm
#21
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 597
And it seems that the issue may have been the number of bags plus the cake that the family tried to bring on board and stow in the overhead bins.
They were told to remove the cake from the overhead bins and the dad didn't, just putting into a different overhead instead. Sounds like they were being jerks about it, got called out on it, and got pissy with the crew and asked if the FA had been drinking. Only then they offered to comply and put it under the seat. By then it was too late and they were tossed.
"....they first put the cake in an overhead bin, but a flight attendant "nicely" asked them to remove it. So he moved it to another one, he said....
JetBlue said in a statement that "the customers became agitated, cursed and yelled at the crew, and made false accusations about a crewmember's fitness to fly." They also "refused to speak with a team leader about the situation," the airline said..
"According to the airline, "All customers are welcome to bring onboard one carry-on and one personal item, including cakes, within the size limits.".
They were told to remove the cake from the overhead bins and the dad didn't, just putting into a different overhead instead. Sounds like they were being jerks about it, got called out on it, and got pissy with the crew and asked if the FA had been drinking. Only then they offered to comply and put it under the seat. By then it was too late and they were tossed.
"....they first put the cake in an overhead bin, but a flight attendant "nicely" asked them to remove it. So he moved it to another one, he said....
JetBlue said in a statement that "the customers became agitated, cursed and yelled at the crew, and made false accusations about a crewmember's fitness to fly." They also "refused to speak with a team leader about the situation," the airline said..
"According to the airline, "All customers are welcome to bring onboard one carry-on and one personal item, including cakes, within the size limits.".
The question, "have you been drinking," is about as passive aggressive as can be. Not criminal. Not enough to get you arrested, but certainly enough to get you tossed. Drinking on the job - or coming to work under the influence - is a fireable offense, so the question was - as the SJW's say - more than just a "microaggression."
Further proof you can't have your cake and seat it, too.
Last edited by HomerJay; May 15, 2017 at 3:21 pm
May 15, 2017, 5:09 pm
#23
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 239
Sounds logical.
The question, "have you been drinking," is about as passive aggressive as can be. Not criminal. Not enough to get you arrested, but certainly enough to get you tossed. Drinking on the job - or coming to work under the influence - is a fireable offense, so the question was - as the SJW's say - more than just a "microaggression."
Further proof you can't have your cake and seat it, too.
The question, "have you been drinking," is about as passive aggressive as can be. Not criminal. Not enough to get you arrested, but certainly enough to get you tossed. Drinking on the job - or coming to work under the influence - is a fireable offense, so the question was - as the SJW's say - more than just a "microaggression."
Further proof you can't have your cake and seat it, too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cakewalk
May 15, 2017, 7:01 pm
#24
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 66
I'll bet that you didn't realize that that whole saying has its roots in the African-American slavery experience:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cakewalk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cakewalk
Here's the right wikipedia article: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_can%27t_have_your_cake_and_eat_it
/pedant off
May 15, 2017, 7:30 pm
#25
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 17,451
What's the rule around here?
In any case where a passenger and carrier dispute the facts of an incident, the airline is always truthful and the passenger is always lying?
Because these two versions cannot both be true.
Except for the "Have you been drinking?" remark.
Which the passenger admitted before Jet Blue ever commented. And he included why he made that comment. Which to me is a throwaway. Some here consider it actionable. I find that laughable.
To me considering the cop's statements, I'm not buying anything more than yet another FA deciding to overreact to a perceived slight.
In the end, all these incidents and the reporting of them are simply the inevitable result of industry consolidation and segmentation to the point of near monopoly. John D Rockefeller became American media's ultimate robber baron by the same dynamic.
In any case where a passenger and carrier dispute the facts of an incident, the airline is always truthful and the passenger is always lying?
Because these two versions cannot both be true.
Except for the "Have you been drinking?" remark.
Which the passenger admitted before Jet Blue ever commented. And he included why he made that comment. Which to me is a throwaway. Some here consider it actionable. I find that laughable.
To me considering the cop's statements, I'm not buying anything more than yet another FA deciding to overreact to a perceived slight.
In the end, all these incidents and the reporting of them are simply the inevitable result of industry consolidation and segmentation to the point of near monopoly. John D Rockefeller became American media's ultimate robber baron by the same dynamic.
May 15, 2017, 8:25 pm
#26
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 597
What's the rule around here?
In any case where a passenger and carrier dispute the facts of an incident, the airline is always truthful and the passenger is always lying?
Because these two versions cannot both be true.
Except for the "Have you been drinking?" remark.
Which the passenger admitted before Jet Blue ever commented. And he included why he made that comment. Which to me is a throwaway. Some here consider it actionable. I find that laughable.
To me considering the cop's statements, I'm not buying anything more than yet another FA deciding to overreact to a perceived slight.
In the end, all these incidents and the reporting of them are simply the inevitable result of industry consolidation and segmentation to the point of near monopoly. John D Rockefeller became American media's ultimate robber baron by the same dynamic.
In any case where a passenger and carrier dispute the facts of an incident, the airline is always truthful and the passenger is always lying?
Because these two versions cannot both be true.
Except for the "Have you been drinking?" remark.
Which the passenger admitted before Jet Blue ever commented. And he included why he made that comment. Which to me is a throwaway. Some here consider it actionable. I find that laughable.
To me considering the cop's statements, I'm not buying anything more than yet another FA deciding to overreact to a perceived slight.
In the end, all these incidents and the reporting of them are simply the inevitable result of industry consolidation and segmentation to the point of near monopoly. John D Rockefeller became American media's ultimate robber baron by the same dynamic.
B6 Flight 611 JFK-LAS is an A321, and the video clearly shows the family sitting in Row 34. That's the last row. The overhead bin above them clearly has a sign on it denoting safety and handicap equipment. This is verifiable from the video and the seat map on the Jetblue website. So, Jetblue is telling the truth about the overhead bin, and likely about the genesis of the incident.
The passenger said he moved the cake multiple times. We can safely assume that he was told that you cannot place anything in the overhead that blocks the safety equipment, and - when he moved it - it was not to the satisfaction of the flight attendant. We have no way of knowing what was said, other than that the passenger "asked" if the FA had been drinking.
We also know that police were called, and the police determined that nothing occurred that would justify an arrest. In other words, that nothing criminal had taken place. That doesn't mean that one side or the other is telling the truth. Nor does it absolve either of blame. It just means they didn't believe this was a police matter. (They also saw the UA video of Dr Dao, most likely) And the airline still maintains the right to kick you off a flight - for cause - even if your actions do not result in an arrest.
We also know that this happened May 3rd, and we didn't find out about it until this weekend, after the family reached out to Al Sharpton. Read into that what you will.
We don't know whether this was a full flight, nor do we know how many carry-ons the family had. We don't know if other passengers were being asked to gate check carry-ons. We've seen the family's video, and we've heard a reply from Jetblue, but little or nothing from other passengers on the plane so far.
I imagine that will change, and will help clarify what happened.
None of us knows what happened in the exchange or exchanges between the passenger and the flight attendants, but I think it's fair to assume that Jetblue's version of genesis of this is true. And that it was moved multiple times. And that the passenger "asked" if the FA had been drinking. Beyond that, we await additional eyewitness accounts.
Last edited by HomerJay; May 15, 2017 at 8:52 pm
May 15, 2017, 9:17 pm
#27
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 17,451
Alright. I give up. It's just another story of air travel mishaps. None of us there.
The guy says he came on with a cake. Put it in an OHB, was told to move it, moved it to another OHB, was told to put it under the seat in front of him, he put it there, he's thinking okay got that sorted, and then a second FA came over and everything went pear-shaped. That's what he says. Maybe he's lying. He wasn't particularly overwrought with the police. So maybe he can turn it on and off at will and was threatening and potentially violent on board.
But I don't see anything that makes me believe Jet Blue's version over his. It's not like we haven't encountered bald-faced lies from airline employees and their managers in CYA mode before.
But none of us were there. So it's pick your poison, I guess.
The guy says he came on with a cake. Put it in an OHB, was told to move it, moved it to another OHB, was told to put it under the seat in front of him, he put it there, he's thinking okay got that sorted, and then a second FA came over and everything went pear-shaped. That's what he says. Maybe he's lying. He wasn't particularly overwrought with the police. So maybe he can turn it on and off at will and was threatening and potentially violent on board.
But I don't see anything that makes me believe Jet Blue's version over his. It's not like we haven't encountered bald-faced lies from airline employees and their managers in CYA mode before.
But none of us were there. So it's pick your poison, I guess.
May 16, 2017, 6:10 am
#29
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 597
Alright. I give up. It's just another story of air travel mishaps. None of us there.
The guy says he came on with a cake. Put it in an OHB, was told to move it, moved it to another OHB, was told to put it under the seat in front of him, he put it there, he's thinking okay got that sorted, and then a second FA came over and everything went pear-shaped. That's what he says. Maybe he's lying. He wasn't particularly overwrought with the police. So maybe he can turn it on and off at will and was threatening and potentially violent on board.
But I don't see anything that makes me believe Jet Blue's version over his. It's not like we haven't encountered bald-faced lies from airline employees and their managers in CYA mode before.
But none of us were there. So it's pick your poison, I guess.
The guy says he came on with a cake. Put it in an OHB, was told to move it, moved it to another OHB, was told to put it under the seat in front of him, he put it there, he's thinking okay got that sorted, and then a second FA came over and everything went pear-shaped. That's what he says. Maybe he's lying. He wasn't particularly overwrought with the police. So maybe he can turn it on and off at will and was threatening and potentially violent on board.
But I don't see anything that makes me believe Jet Blue's version over his. It's not like we haven't encountered bald-faced lies from airline employees and their managers in CYA mode before.
But none of us were there. So it's pick your poison, I guess.
I suspect that Row 34 has something more to do with this. Not only is that where emergency equipment is stored, but the very back of the plane is where crewmembers often stow their own carry-ons. Might someone have been extra cautious, nasty, or inappropriate to the passengers because they didn't want a cake banging around up there next to crew luggage? There's plenty here we don't know. Yet.
May 16, 2017, 6:58 am
#30
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 72
What's the rule around here?
In any case where a passenger and carrier dispute the facts of an incident, the airline is always truthful and the passenger is always lying?
Because these two versions cannot both be true.
Except for the "Have you been drinking?" remark.
Which the passenger admitted before Jet Blue ever commented. And he included why he made that comment. Which to me is a throwaway. Some here consider it actionable. I find that laughable.
To me considering the cop's statements, I'm not buying anything more than yet another FA deciding to overreact to a perceived slight.
In the end, all these incidents and the reporting of them are simply the inevitable result of industry consolidation and segmentation to the point of near monopoly. John D Rockefeller became American media's ultimate robber baron by the same dynamic.
In any case where a passenger and carrier dispute the facts of an incident, the airline is always truthful and the passenger is always lying?
Because these two versions cannot both be true.
Except for the "Have you been drinking?" remark.
Which the passenger admitted before Jet Blue ever commented. And he included why he made that comment. Which to me is a throwaway. Some here consider it actionable. I find that laughable.
To me considering the cop's statements, I'm not buying anything more than yet another FA deciding to overreact to a perceived slight.
In the end, all these incidents and the reporting of them are simply the inevitable result of industry consolidation and segmentation to the point of near monopoly. John D Rockefeller became American media's ultimate robber baron by the same dynamic.
The solution is to have the government undo its past mistakes allowing the huge airline mergers and break up the airlines and thereby restoring competition.
In this incident, the police did not find fault with the passengers so I have little faith in the statements by JetBlue.