Leaving JetBlue and TrueBlue: value is HALF of what old TrueBlue program was! (Proof)
Apr 8, 2010, 9:36 pm
#16
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2
Again, I will say that while I am sure the new True Blue will have it's fans,I am just not one of them.
Apr 8, 2010, 9:59 pm
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: n.y.c.
Posts: 13,988
Apr 9, 2010, 4:42 am
#18
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Every loyalty program out there in the USA and most around the world reward the higher spend with more benefits/points/credits. TB2 is not at all unique in this approach.
Apr 9, 2010, 2:27 pm
#19
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: n.y.c.
Posts: 13,988
Oh, there was never implication that TB is unique, nor that legacies don't give bonus miles for Y/J/F fares.
Apr 13, 2010, 6:54 pm
#20
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: trueblue
Posts: 100
Up until now I was a Staunch defender of the new TB2. Not anymore!!!!!
I have just been doing some preliminary plans for some future trips. I am astounded at the points B6 wants for some ONE WAY flights......
22,500 to Phoenix from JFK!!!!
17,500 from Phoenix to JFK... Come on now...... this is outrageous
30,000 from JFK to Aruba... Get the hell out of here..
My benchmark is 20,000 points equals an old RT award on TB1. B6 when they rolled out TB2 said some one way flights could be had for 5,000 pts with other long haul flights around the 10,000 mark. When I checked soon after TB2 was rolled out the points charge was within that 5,000 to 10,000 range for a one way trip.
Now when I look around I feel like I am being ripped off. Especially when I see awards for one way trips at 17,500 to 30,000 points.
I have already told my son to cancel his B6 AMEX. As for my plans I will likely hang in there for a while but I am NOT going to totally loyal to B6. I will look outside the BLUE BOX now. I used to be restricted in my plans to the B6 route map.
Not anymore. In a way I feel unchained.
Sorry B6 but you have really let me down.
Also where has True Blue gal been? She posted a handful of times then fell of the map?
I have just been doing some preliminary plans for some future trips. I am astounded at the points B6 wants for some ONE WAY flights......
22,500 to Phoenix from JFK!!!!
17,500 from Phoenix to JFK... Come on now...... this is outrageous
30,000 from JFK to Aruba... Get the hell out of here..
My benchmark is 20,000 points equals an old RT award on TB1. B6 when they rolled out TB2 said some one way flights could be had for 5,000 pts with other long haul flights around the 10,000 mark. When I checked soon after TB2 was rolled out the points charge was within that 5,000 to 10,000 range for a one way trip.
Now when I look around I feel like I am being ripped off. Especially when I see awards for one way trips at 17,500 to 30,000 points.
I have already told my son to cancel his B6 AMEX. As for my plans I will likely hang in there for a while but I am NOT going to totally loyal to B6. I will look outside the BLUE BOX now. I used to be restricted in my plans to the B6 route map.
Not anymore. In a way I feel unchained.
Sorry B6 but you have really let me down.
Also where has True Blue gal been? She posted a handful of times then fell of the map?
Apr 13, 2010, 8:25 pm
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: n.y.c.
Posts: 13,988
There was also TrueBlueGuy who appeared for a day or two last summer.
Apr 14, 2010, 8:04 pm
#22
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New Jersey
Programs: Credit Cards
Posts: 3,009
cancelled my JetBlue AMEX card today, no more real use for it anymore... AMEX didn't really seem to care much, other than of course an automated e-mail soliciting a survey for the way my phone call was handled.
Apr 14, 2010, 8:19 pm
#23
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 519
Before I explain this, a brief background on me: I have loved JetBlue from day one and have been a regular flyer of the Airline for the better part of 8 years. I fly them on average 14 times a year, that is 14 roundtrips or 28 legs a year. I fly for business mostly with some personal mixed in and I frequent California, Las Vegas, Florida, Phoenix & Denver regularly but have also gone to several Caribbean destinations with the airline. I know every snack by name and brand I've been loyal. I also bought the All You Can Jet Ticket last year. In short, when they fly the route I am taking, I always fly on "the Blue" making me a pretty idyllic customer who spends a lot of money each year on the airline.
I am also new to Flyertalk, registered today at the suggestion of a friend who is a employee in the industry.
When JetBlue started really growing and got a new CEO, I noticed the changes like any frequent traveler would: higher average fares (I remember back when JetBlue was usually the cheapest option), charging for extra leg room, refundable tickets, aggressive route expansion, degraded quality of inflight service, etc. I was fine with it and recognized that JetBlue was going from being "special" to just becoming another airline. I chalked it up to a necessary business move and continued to fly the airline as much as ever. With the recent change of the True Blue program, I was interested, but skeptical as it seemed like I might benefit, because sometimes fares were astronomical these days on JetBlue and I figured I would reap added value in points.
So here's the rub. The new True Blue Program sucks. And it sucks bad and I'm going to lay it out and I challenge anyone to refute it.
I think its too new for people to really know it yet, but as a frequent flyer on JetBlue, I see it now and its plane (plain) as day that this thing is going to hurt their business because if it is causing ME to change airlines and stop using JetBlue, then it will certainly crush the infrequent user who sees significantly less benefit to flying JetBlue than I do and simply opts for another carrier where the path to a free ticket is easier and more clear cut. I am preparing a spreadsheet because I want to spell out to JetBlue's management team why I am leaving but for now, here is the quick math.
Under the old True Blue program, you got to 100 points and bam, free roundtrip ticket. Long haul flights were worth more points and short haul and JetBlue had a cool little picture that showed you your progress. Brilliant and simple. My trips racked those up and I enjoyed building the inventory of free flights up so I could fly my family for free from time to time. I didn't care that they expired in a year...I used them up!
Forget that the new True Blue program is convoluted, its designed to be. If it wasn't then the value you extract as a regular user would be much more clear and people would throw a fit. Make it unclear and people can't really make an argument to complain. Im not saying they were that devious when putting the program together, but why not just equate the program to dollars or miles, two things we all understand? It's like those point systems on the Xbox and Wii Video Game consoles: $1 equals 800 points? What? It feels like Monopoly Money. TrueBlue is set up the same way. And those "big bonus" additions of huge points? Who cares? The amount of points necessary to book flights is so high and so ridiculous that your GO BIG BONUSES are a joke! They don't matter one bit. They advertise "free flights start at 5000 points. Well, guess what. That is for one way trips from JFK to Syracuse when you are up in the air for 38 minutes. Here is a piece of a personal example of mine:
I have flown JetBlue 8 times since November 1 for 16 individual legs. Destinations include the following locations, all initiated at JFK.
Denver, San Francisco, Long Beach, Salt Lake City, & Las Vegas. Some destinations were flown more than once and there was a Florida trip in there as well. The amount of flying I have done would have alotted me roughly two roundtrip tickets under the previous program when you include their old online booking bonuses and the point value long haul of flights. So how many points do I have now? 29,000 because of some Go Big bonuses including some worth 4,000 points. Sounds great, but let me show you some random checks of point values for a handful of destinations to illustrate what a joke the new system is. You do the same thing and see what you come up with.
Based on Checks I did Today: Random Dates Selected
New York to San Diego: Average Points for Roundtrip Needed 32,000!
New York to Salt Lake City: Average Points for Roundtrip Needed 28,000
How about Denver? That is closer! 26,000
And Syracuse? I checked it and its 6,300 points to go there, each way! For a total of 12,600 points. I guess I could fly the Mrs. to Syracuse.
So I don't have enough yet for San Diego, but I can get to Denver or Salt Lake if I am really flexible with the dates. Yes, you have to be crazy flexible too because they have many one way flights that are 23,000+. Sure you can use the new points anytime but who is going to get 50,000+ points anytime soon if it took me 6 months to get to 30 and I LIVE on those planes!
By my calculations, the program offers flyers 40% to 50% less of what the old True Blue system did. I understand some degradation given the need to compete, but this is enough of a punch in the gut that I am signing off of JetBlue after my currently booked flights are taken. I am actively looking for the best alternative airline. It might mean going to Delta. Might be someone else. I don't look forward to making the change but I need to so that I can ensure the most benefit from my frequent travel.
Bottom line is I'm out. See ya later TrueBlue and JetBlue I will miss you. I will also miss T5. Has been a great place to arrive early before a flight. I don't want to go to Delta, but they do have inflight Wifi now which is pretty good and at least their reward program is clear.
I am also new to Flyertalk, registered today at the suggestion of a friend who is a employee in the industry.
When JetBlue started really growing and got a new CEO, I noticed the changes like any frequent traveler would: higher average fares (I remember back when JetBlue was usually the cheapest option), charging for extra leg room, refundable tickets, aggressive route expansion, degraded quality of inflight service, etc. I was fine with it and recognized that JetBlue was going from being "special" to just becoming another airline. I chalked it up to a necessary business move and continued to fly the airline as much as ever. With the recent change of the True Blue program, I was interested, but skeptical as it seemed like I might benefit, because sometimes fares were astronomical these days on JetBlue and I figured I would reap added value in points.
So here's the rub. The new True Blue Program sucks. And it sucks bad and I'm going to lay it out and I challenge anyone to refute it.
I think its too new for people to really know it yet, but as a frequent flyer on JetBlue, I see it now and its plane (plain) as day that this thing is going to hurt their business because if it is causing ME to change airlines and stop using JetBlue, then it will certainly crush the infrequent user who sees significantly less benefit to flying JetBlue than I do and simply opts for another carrier where the path to a free ticket is easier and more clear cut. I am preparing a spreadsheet because I want to spell out to JetBlue's management team why I am leaving but for now, here is the quick math.
Under the old True Blue program, you got to 100 points and bam, free roundtrip ticket. Long haul flights were worth more points and short haul and JetBlue had a cool little picture that showed you your progress. Brilliant and simple. My trips racked those up and I enjoyed building the inventory of free flights up so I could fly my family for free from time to time. I didn't care that they expired in a year...I used them up!
Forget that the new True Blue program is convoluted, its designed to be. If it wasn't then the value you extract as a regular user would be much more clear and people would throw a fit. Make it unclear and people can't really make an argument to complain. Im not saying they were that devious when putting the program together, but why not just equate the program to dollars or miles, two things we all understand? It's like those point systems on the Xbox and Wii Video Game consoles: $1 equals 800 points? What? It feels like Monopoly Money. TrueBlue is set up the same way. And those "big bonus" additions of huge points? Who cares? The amount of points necessary to book flights is so high and so ridiculous that your GO BIG BONUSES are a joke! They don't matter one bit. They advertise "free flights start at 5000 points. Well, guess what. That is for one way trips from JFK to Syracuse when you are up in the air for 38 minutes. Here is a piece of a personal example of mine:
I have flown JetBlue 8 times since November 1 for 16 individual legs. Destinations include the following locations, all initiated at JFK.
Denver, San Francisco, Long Beach, Salt Lake City, & Las Vegas. Some destinations were flown more than once and there was a Florida trip in there as well. The amount of flying I have done would have alotted me roughly two roundtrip tickets under the previous program when you include their old online booking bonuses and the point value long haul of flights. So how many points do I have now? 29,000 because of some Go Big bonuses including some worth 4,000 points. Sounds great, but let me show you some random checks of point values for a handful of destinations to illustrate what a joke the new system is. You do the same thing and see what you come up with.
Based on Checks I did Today: Random Dates Selected
New York to San Diego: Average Points for Roundtrip Needed 32,000!
New York to Salt Lake City: Average Points for Roundtrip Needed 28,000
How about Denver? That is closer! 26,000
And Syracuse? I checked it and its 6,300 points to go there, each way! For a total of 12,600 points. I guess I could fly the Mrs. to Syracuse.
So I don't have enough yet for San Diego, but I can get to Denver or Salt Lake if I am really flexible with the dates. Yes, you have to be crazy flexible too because they have many one way flights that are 23,000+. Sure you can use the new points anytime but who is going to get 50,000+ points anytime soon if it took me 6 months to get to 30 and I LIVE on those planes!
By my calculations, the program offers flyers 40% to 50% less of what the old True Blue system did. I understand some degradation given the need to compete, but this is enough of a punch in the gut that I am signing off of JetBlue after my currently booked flights are taken. I am actively looking for the best alternative airline. It might mean going to Delta. Might be someone else. I don't look forward to making the change but I need to so that I can ensure the most benefit from my frequent travel.
Bottom line is I'm out. See ya later TrueBlue and JetBlue I will miss you. I will also miss T5. Has been a great place to arrive early before a flight. I don't want to go to Delta, but they do have inflight Wifi now which is pretty good and at least their reward program is clear.
Apr 15, 2010, 8:59 am
#24
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
How many points is a BizE ticket from JFK to CDG? Or JFK-BKK? If you can provide an answer that isn't a broad range which depends on a wide variety of parameters, details DL is not willing to publish to their members, you'd be a hero in the FT DL forum.
Apr 17, 2010, 10:26 pm
#25
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SEA
Programs: DL PM, CO Silver
Posts: 151
It is a big failure for Main Street - those of us who are paying for their own flights, and are able to plan in advance.
I'm in the latter category, and no longer fly JetBlue (I came on here to see if I can do anything with my 44 old Trueblue points - looks like nothing).
Apr 18, 2010, 5:56 pm
#26
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,620
That's really low compared with today's Rapid Rewards. I spend at most $800 for 16 credits, earning a free transcon RT worth $300 or more. That's a 37% return. In the past it has been as high as 100%. I expect Rapid Rewards 2.0 (similar to TB2 and proposed for late this year) to deliver 10% or less. That will be a huge step down for me. I hope it never happens, but we all know that devaluation is the way of the world.
Apr 19, 2010, 2:34 pm
#27
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New York City, NY
Programs: jetBlue TrueBlue, AAdvantage
Posts: 152
I am no expert on TB1/2 but I did reap regular benefits from TB1 with flying only 3-4x per year. I have the B6AX card and continue to earn thousands of points a month. I was able to Xfer some of my new points back to old in order to earn truepasses earlier this year (which I already used). So far the TB2 program, as many of you are suggesting, does favor the business passenger. I am by no means a business passenger, but because I fly in combination with my AX card I have a significant number of points already.
In 2009 I had to make an emergency trip south and booked the flight the day before travel. I had to pay full-fare and had to purchase EML seats because they were the only remaining seats on the a/c. I earned as many points on TB1 as if I had a deeply discounted fare because the program didn't award based on purchase price but on how long the haul was. I didn't complain, because I earned a truepass after completing travel, but it would have been nice to get more points for spending more, especially since you earn 8 points for every dollar you spend on B6 travel with the B6AX card.
I am not really sure which program I like better yet, I do spend more on travel now that I am going to School in Seattle, WA (For my ATC CTI!!). It seems that the new program seems to be pretty rewarding for me so far since I already have enough points to get a r/t back home to NYC.
In 2009 I had to make an emergency trip south and booked the flight the day before travel. I had to pay full-fare and had to purchase EML seats because they were the only remaining seats on the a/c. I earned as many points on TB1 as if I had a deeply discounted fare because the program didn't award based on purchase price but on how long the haul was. I didn't complain, because I earned a truepass after completing travel, but it would have been nice to get more points for spending more, especially since you earn 8 points for every dollar you spend on B6 travel with the B6AX card.
I am not really sure which program I like better yet, I do spend more on travel now that I am going to School in Seattle, WA (For my ATC CTI!!). It seems that the new program seems to be pretty rewarding for me so far since I already have enough points to get a r/t back home to NYC.
Apr 19, 2010, 5:59 pm
#28
Join Date: May 2008
Location: new york
Programs: trueblue ,mileageplus skymiles, hilton honors silver
Posts: 965
TB2
I am no expert on TB1/2 but I did reap regular benefits from TB1 with flying only 3-4x per year. I have the B6AX card and continue to earn thousands of points a month. I was able to Xfer some of my new points back to old in order to earn truepasses earlier this year (which I already used). So far the TB2 program, as many of you are suggesting, does favor the business passenger. I am by no means a business passenger, but because I fly in combination with my AX card I have a significant number of points already.
In 2009 I had to make an emergency trip south and booked the flight the day before travel. I had to pay full-fare and had to purchase EML seats because they were the only remaining seats on the a/c. I earned as many points on TB1 as if I had a deeply discounted fare because the program didn't award based on purchase price but on how long the haul was. I didn't complain, because I earned a truepass after completing travel, but it would have been nice to get more points for spending more, especially since you earn 8 points for every dollar you spend on B6 travel with the B6AX card.
I am not really sure which program I like better yet, I do spend more on travel now that I am going to School in Seattle, WA (For my ATC CTI!!). It seems that the new program seems to be pretty rewarding for me so far since I already have enough points to get a r/t back home to NYC.
In 2009 I had to make an emergency trip south and booked the flight the day before travel. I had to pay full-fare and had to purchase EML seats because they were the only remaining seats on the a/c. I earned as many points on TB1 as if I had a deeply discounted fare because the program didn't award based on purchase price but on how long the haul was. I didn't complain, because I earned a truepass after completing travel, but it would have been nice to get more points for spending more, especially since you earn 8 points for every dollar you spend on B6 travel with the B6AX card.
I am not really sure which program I like better yet, I do spend more on travel now that I am going to School in Seattle, WA (For my ATC CTI!!). It seems that the new program seems to be pretty rewarding for me so far since I already have enough points to get a r/t back home to NYC.
Apr 19, 2010, 8:08 pm
#29
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL DM, Marriott TE, and Reformed AMEX Cent
Posts: 332
TB2 is a rip-off
In 2007 I flew about 50 legs on JetBlue. Nearly all of my flights were paid for using my AMEX points and nearly all of them were to LAS. In 2008 I would spend 25,000 AMEX points and I nearly always got a round trip ticket from JFK to anywhere I wanted to go. I didn't always get my exact travel day but generally got my preferred date and nearly always could find a round trip ticket within a day of my desired travel day.
In 2008 I didn't fly much.
Now I'll be flying often - probably doing 35 rt flights a year for the next many many years. I just went to book my first 10 rt flights via TrueBlu and am outraged!!
First - the conversion rate from AMEX to TrueBlue is 250 to 200. Could you be more disingenuous? The only and I mean ONLY reason to not have 1 to 1 is that you want to confuse people. You want people to say - hey I can get this flight for 50,000 points on AA but on JetBlue it's only 45,000 points. Of course 50,000 points on AA cost me less than 45,000 TrueBlue points.
Next - I can't find any rt flights for 25,000 points - ever - not one. And even if I could, remember, 25,000 TrueBlue points cost me 31,250 AMEX points now. SO I used to pay 25,000 AMEX points and now I can't even find a ticket for 31,250 points. And in fact most of the flights would cost me more than 40,000 points. It's more than a 50% increase in my costs.
Finally -their website speaks of how these changes were made with the traveller in mind? THEY WEREN'T MADE WITH THIS TRAVELLER IN MIND!!
Why did they ever get rid of Dave? Stupid move - 50% increase for this traveller is outrageous.
I won't fly JetBlue again unless they change their program.
In 2008 I didn't fly much.
Now I'll be flying often - probably doing 35 rt flights a year for the next many many years. I just went to book my first 10 rt flights via TrueBlu and am outraged!!
First - the conversion rate from AMEX to TrueBlue is 250 to 200. Could you be more disingenuous? The only and I mean ONLY reason to not have 1 to 1 is that you want to confuse people. You want people to say - hey I can get this flight for 50,000 points on AA but on JetBlue it's only 45,000 points. Of course 50,000 points on AA cost me less than 45,000 TrueBlue points.
Next - I can't find any rt flights for 25,000 points - ever - not one. And even if I could, remember, 25,000 TrueBlue points cost me 31,250 AMEX points now. SO I used to pay 25,000 AMEX points and now I can't even find a ticket for 31,250 points. And in fact most of the flights would cost me more than 40,000 points. It's more than a 50% increase in my costs.
Finally -their website speaks of how these changes were made with the traveller in mind? THEY WEREN'T MADE WITH THIS TRAVELLER IN MIND!!
Why did they ever get rid of Dave? Stupid move - 50% increase for this traveller is outrageous.
I won't fly JetBlue again unless they change their program.
Apr 20, 2010, 1:42 pm
#30
Join Date: May 2008
Location: new york
Programs: trueblue ,mileageplus skymiles, hilton honors silver
Posts: 965
On the other hand
Here are people on the Delta forum praising Jetblue.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...onnection.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...onnection.html