Relocating to Tokyo (maybe)
 

So an opportunity may be coming up with my firm to move to Tokyo, and I'm quite tempted by it. It would have a lot going for it in professional terms, and I like the idea of a couple of years abroad (I'm single and have no fixed committments).

Our Tokyo office is in Roppongi - and I wouldn't want to be a long commute from there, so I've been doing a bit of internet apartment hunting. I was looking at areas like Kamiyacho, Azabu, Akasaka and Hiroo on various real estate agent websites. There seemed to be quite lot of nice, modern apartments in the 60-80m^2 range (I only need one bedroom, but I'd like enough space to have a home-office area), and those areas are extremely convenient from the public transport perspective.

My budget for accommodation is in the 400-500K yen per month, which seems to go pretty far. It's kinda tricky to know for sure because I don't know yet whether I would expect to go onto the yen payroll (how do Tokyo salaries compare with London and New York in the banking industry?), and my quick look at the Japanese tax system has left me pretty confused about what my tax liability (plus mandatory social insurances etc).

There are about a billion websites out there for potential ex-patriates moving to Tokyo, does anyone know of any 'must see' resources? Are there any total gotchas I ought to know about?

Thread for Roppongi apartment search:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=621986

Thread for the expat package:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=632382

Would the OP mind if this thread were merged with one of the above?

I live in Roppongi, close to Azabu Juban Station. I have a 168 sq m two bedroom but it is somewhat higher than your budget. There are a lot of apartments in Azabu Juban, Roppongi, Minami Azabu, Nishi Azabu, and Hiroo that will be in your price range and our walkable to your office in Roppongi (depending on where in Roppongi your office would be).

Here is site of realtor I used:

http://www.kencorp.com/index.cgi

Here is another site:

http://www.japanhomesearch.com/

I had a lot more sites that I used but I deleted all the links; just do a search on tokyo apartments.

I strongly endorse both relocating to Tokyo and living in Roppongi area. We love it here. We were originally planning on three years (my committment) but are now planning on five years or more. Our apartment is about 6 six mintues to Azabu Juban station and 9 minutes to Roppongi Station. There are so many stores and restaurants within walking distance that we never miss not having a car.

Marc

Thanks for your input - to be honest the 400-500K range is purely indicative and I have no doubt there will have to be some significant negotiation with my employer to figure out the exact implications should I go ahead.

Does anyone know what kind of cost-of-living adjustments are generally applied between London and Tokyo?

jib71 Please feel free to merge this thread as you see appropriate, thank you!

My free advice to you is NOT to get involved with the public health system. It is based on your income and then when you go to the doctor you pay an additional 30%! Take the expat health plan and get your health service done in BKK ! The other taxes you will be forced to pay (and pay you shall) recently doubled.........Welcome to Japan:D!

I personally belive Tokyo is less expensive than London, especially since GBP/JPY is at a 10 year high (or more). Everyone has an opinion on actual cost of living, but my experience has been that overall, costs are lower than either Manhattan or Central London, despite initial feelings to the contrary.


Accomodation: For 400-500k, in Roppongi/Kamiyacho you could get about 80-100 sq mts or so in low rise apartments like the older Homat names. I think the newer, higher rise buildings like izumi garden or mori http://www.moriliving.com/residence/index.html.en are the highest end of the scale in terms of cost/sq metre.

Pay, tax, COLA adjustments, etc: All in all, an identical pay with housing will help you save more. Although taxes are higher at the highest end, its comparable at the lower end. (all Official tax docs here http://www.nta.go.jp/category/english/index.htm I think :confused: . if you can understand it, great. In general there seems to be more deductions than the national insurance/council tax/property tax/income tax segregation in the UK. There are some differences, like (i think) you pay local inhabitants tax a year in arrears after one calendar year (meaning first year take home pay is higher)

By the looks of it there are more deductions available, but the reality is somewhat different. Especially for those who are single. Make no mistake, the health insurance is a "tax", which is based on the previious years income. So you could join when you get here and enjoy very low premiums (as you had no salary from the previous year), just be sure to go home before the next fiscal year begins.

From my cursory experience, health tax tops out at 500K-600K Yen(average is 400K yen on a salary of 6-8 million Yen per year(an average for Japanese families))and remember you have to pay 30% when you go to the doctor, the residents tax will be about 10% of your trailing years income (the more you make the more you pay) and then you have the payroll tax plus some others........

Woah, how is 'family' defined in that context that the average salary for a family is 60-80MM Yen? That's half a million dollars at the low end.

Perhaps I'm not as well comped as I thought, haha.

To be honest, I don't need 100 sq m (that's rather more than I have here in London and I don't feel short of space here). I'd be happier with less space and an apartment with a nice view; wired for FTTH, CATV already; aircon etc.

Talking of Mori, Roppongi Hills would be absolutely the most convenient possible location for work but the hills-zoku premium seems pretty high, even comparing newer and similarly equipped apartments.

Sorry I meant 6-8 million yen:p:o!

I am sure you are well taken care of, and your package will no doubt be one that most of us can only dream about. Please be sure to have your company pay all your social insurance/health premiums as separate from your pay...... Your rent pretty well outstrips a typical families yearly earnings outside of Greater Tokyo:eek:......


http://chintai.daio-group.co.jp/bukk...an/bridge.html

Above is a place my friend moved into in Fukuoka about 140,000 including parking for one vehicle.........I am sure you can find similar(but more expensive) in Tokyo! Good luck, you will no doubt have the time of your life for 1-2 years!

Before looking at Mori properties, make sure that your Company or someone else will be acting as guarantor or, better yet, that your Company is actually the lessee. MJM can fill you in on the particulars. It did me no good to look at Mori buildings as Replus, a company used by Ken Corp to provide guarantees, is not accepted by Mori. Since my company can't act as a guarantor, I was out of luck.

Marc

That's a great bit of information.

I did a little more digging and it seems like the typical way this would work is that my company would be the lessee, would pay all the initials costs like key money, deposit and so on; and I would pay a 'legal rent' to my company (I think 5% of the actual).

I looked at that arrangement and my first thought was 'that makes life easier' immediately followed by 'what are the tax implications?' I'm pretty sure that if my company did that for me in the UK, I'd be on the hook for the market value of the rent at 40%.

Personally, I'd shoot for the smaller, brand-new apartment that's cheaper so that I could sock some of that extra cash away - or go out drinking more. Sounds like you're a banker, I'm not sure if your kind are able to have fun - I never met a single banker out while I was there, they were always having to deal with things like "stock markets" and "investments." :)

Seriously, though, in the words of one of my professors at TUJ (who advises expats and finds them jobs), if you can go smaller and sock the money away, that's the best way to do it. When he first moved there, they gave him a $6000/month housing allowance. He found a house outside Tokyo for $1000/month for him and his family - the company just gave him the $6000 and said "do what you will," which is apparently typical, I hear.

If you are looking in Minato-ku area, I found these people to have great services (FTTH, Cable, etc.) - http://www.eg-wave.com/e/ and they were VERY efficient. I was in within one day of finding a nice 20m^2 in Akasaka with practically everything from a magical toilet to FTTH to a washer/dryer, and the place was a year old. I didn't have a magical view (although I could see OVER the next roof to the Mori Tower rising into the sky), but I had a little bit of one. (Remember, you're gonna pay more for a view, because those are typically in the skyscrapers, ne?)

Although, as a banker, you could just sleep in a cot in your office...;)

As for some other things - you should definitely get private health insurance, which will enable you to go to places like the Akasaka International Clinic (my preferred doctor) or the Tokyo International Clinic and not have to pay out the nose every time.

Furthermore, I know you do want to live close to your office, but if you're really about my age (25ish) you may want to look into some of the slighly further away "younger areas" like Shimo-Kita (amazing very chill area) or Ebisu (also fantastic. Actually, I just found this blog post reporting on the Best Neighborhoods 2007 - http://smt.blogs.com/mari_diary/2007..._best_nei.html , you may want to read it.

Finally, just from my personal experience (and summing up some of my comments): I LOVED living in Akasaka. I went to school in Azabu-Juuban (20 minute walk) and worked in Yotsuya (2 minute walk + 2 stops on the train), so it was extremely convenient. But I can also say that as time went on, I kept thinking that if, after I graduated, I went back to Tokyo again, I would want to live further away from the center - it's amazing, but it's also super expensive & loud. While I could go out in Roppongi every night (and, sadly, did), I also started to want to get away from it more often (I ended up going to Niigata for mountains and hot springs a lot) and going out further away. YMMV, of course - I knew it was kind of time to get out of there for a little when I started to say to my girlfriend "kettai na gaijin wa akan ya naa." :)

I'd second that Shimo-Kita is a great area (and I'm just above the age 25, thus making me old for the neighborhood)-- I end up there almost every weekend. However, I'd put convenience first at least during a first year in Tokyo and would recommend being within walking distance of the office.

For the OP, you'll definitely be able to come out in good shape... your housing allowance is substantially above mine and I have 68 sq m in Yoyogi-Uehara. It's not an absolutely happening place, but very nice and I can walk to my office in Shibuya in about half an hour... or bike it in 10. From my experience, there's definitely a lot of folks interested in visiting anyone in Tokyo so it's nice to have some extra space to accommodate visitors.

I'd aim for a decent space (with good internet access... fiber to the building is what I have at less than 2k/month) that's within walking distance to work. BTW, when you're looking for space make sure to check/ask about things like access to put a SkyPerfect dish on your balcony (and negotiate in things -- I obtained a great fridge and a third air-con, along with a not so good washer/dryer).

On the tax side, you should probably be able to negotiate in a gross-up for the taxation on your housing. From what I can determine so far (JPN taxes done for '06 but not US taxes) 10% of the housing costs are taxable if you're not paying 10% or more of the cost yourself. I'm not sure what my US liability will be; and your UK situation may vary. I'd advise asking your company to perform a pre-transfer tax analysis -- this was very helpful in resolving all my concerns on that side.

In general though, NickW, if you get the opportunity I'd strongly recommend that you take it. I was in the same situation about 11 months ago and the move has really worked out well.

hamburgler