Well, myself, for starters as your example. I live in Japan right now, and have done a couple of tours of duty here. I have both Japanese and foreign friends, and everybody who works for me is Japanese. Doesn't bother me, and it doesn't bother them, it seems. I like it here, more than most places, including where I came from.

My experience probably applies to different degrees, to probably pretty much the entire Mabodofu Nemawashi crowd here in FT.

Besides, why should integrating into Japanese society be your objective? I'm not Japanese, and I don't pretend to. I understand the country and its people reasonably well to be effective and functional here, and although I wouldn't mind being more functional, I get plenty out of my current abilities.

"Integrating" into a different culture not your own, unless you grew up there, is a fiction. I don't think the 'traditional open' societies of the West have been any better at integrating people either. If you come to accept that, then just find your groove wherever you are, there are enough streams of cultural thought and attitudes in Japan that there's something for everybody.

True, many Westerners end up having a hard time in Japan. But that isn't Japan's fault. It can be done, and it isn't that difficult. Blaming Japan for that is like blaming my cat Smidgen for being a cat. He's a cat, and that's the way it is. The fact that Japan is 'alien' is not Japan's problem, and if it chooses to continue being 'alien', that's their national prerogative. Japan is what it is, and if you accept that, then you should have no trouble "integrating".

Could you define Mabodofu Nemawashi? I found Nemawashi but not Mabodofu.

It may be someone's objective if they were, for instance, Japanese-American and wanted to get back to their roots. When I moved to Israel my objective was to integrate into Israeli society, to become an Israeli. I think I've done a fairly good job of it. However, Israeli society on a macro-level also had a interest in my doing so and provided atmosphere to make that possible.

While I don't see myself integrating into Japanese society in the same way, it would be important to me to live as much like the locals as possible. There are many reasons this is important to me. Some of them include:

1) Taking on the local customs and culture makes it easier for you and the locals to interact and bond.
2) Demonstrating your ability to be local normally is received with a degree of respect and appreciation.
3) Eating like the locals to some extent will bring down living expenses.
4) Being able to adapt to different cultures gives you added personal value to people of your own culture.
5) People of a local culture feel more comfortable interacting in the ways they are used to interacting with those native of their culture.
6) Going with the flow of the local culture can make life much easier and enjoyable.

I see plenty of Americans that move to Israel and live in American ghettos, never really learn the language and complain about the idiosyncrasies of Israeli society. At the end of the day they are miserable and go back to where they came from. I don't intend to spend the rest of my life in Japan but , assuming that this whole things happens, I'd like to feel that I lived in Japan and not that I lived in a gaijun ghetto in Japan and saw Japanese locals on the train and in the office.


Why do you feel that way? If you did grow up there would you not be integrated de-facto? I think my children could move to the US and become fully integrated although they didn't grow up there. On the other hand I have a brother-in-law living in LA and he rarely speaks English. He has no idea what the topics are in local elections or the big stories of the day. He has made no attempt to integrate and to an extent this will stunt his ability to grow and truly succeed in that culture. When my grandfather immigrated to the US it was important for him to feel American. Many of the generation born in the 30-50s never learned their parents native tongue because the parents wanted their children to be 'American' whereas today people seem to be much more focused on their native culture.



Agree 100% which is why I think it is important, in order to succeed living and prospering in the society, to make the effort oneself to take on the ways that they are used to rather than expecting something from them.

That said I'm highly unlikely to shave my beard although that may be an issue with the local culture. Just have to prove that I am manager-level-style-worthy. ;)

Mabodofu is a soybean curd dish of Chinese origin. I hope the Tokyo version is better than the bland Shanghai stuff, but in other Chinese provinces where it´s a notch or two spicier the outcome is superb...;)

Anyway, just relax and let your kids teach you about Japanese culture. They´ll integrate first as children always too.

I think this is Stage 1 of a "5 Stages of Grief" kind of thing as applied to being an expat in Japan.

1. You try really hard to fit in.
2. Your efforts are not appreciated in the way you'd like them to be.
3. You get really annoyed and switch over to "I'm a gaijin, and I'm gonna be a gaijin, dammit!" mode.
4. That gets tiring, too, and you start living your life the way you want to. You find Japanese and non-Japanese friends in your niche (as Pickles has mentioned above) and you're happy.

OK, that's not 5, but maybe someone else has another step to add.

Japanese people don't eat Japanese food 3 meals a day. Why should you if it's not what you want to eat?

And if you were even thinking about shaving your beard to make people more comfortable with you, you're thinking too hard.

Indeed, that level of integration would make you effective and very likely improve your level of satisfaction with your life in Japan. It really isn't that difficult if you have the right attitude and are culturally aware and flexible. Not for everybody, but for those who "get it", it is very rewarding.

The likelihood of being 'integrated' is highest wherever you grew up and with the culture that you identify with the most. So, in general, foreigners can be integrate outside their 'native' lands, but it is hard everywhere, not only in Japan. Your brother-in-law is no different that a Westerner in Japan.

Nah, he's worse. Trust me, I know. ;)

I am a newbie in Tokyo; my wife and I have been here just six weeks. We just moved into our apartment. We did read up on cultural differences ahead of our move. We treat all with respect. We tried to learn a little of the language before we came. However, we have not been eating Japanese food. We moved to Roppongi/Azabu Juban area because it does have all the western food you can desire. In addition we are here under Status of Forces Agreement so we can shop at US military facilities. Sure is nice when you can pick up a twelve pack of diet coke for $2.75.

So far, I have only two things that you really need to consider. First is that you need to be physically fit. There is a lot of walking and not all subway and train stations have escalators and/or elevators all the way to street level. Second, you really do need to learn the language; at least to a certain level.

I would like to say that we have been treated well (or ignored) by all Japanese. We have been made to feel welcome. Of course, we stand out as my wife is a blonde and I have a full beard. I know there are vast cultural differences but I do not think will inhibit us from really enjoying our stay in Tokyo.

As for finanaces, my company use air-inc for determining housing allowance and COLA. However, that is not the only thing to look at. First, with respect to allowances, the "sending rates" can vary and can have a big impact on actual allowances. Second, the other benefits such as how many times they will fly you home can vary greatly.

Good luck!

Marc

Thanks for the good information Marq. May I ask what "sending rate" is?

Does anyone have a website with the reqs for a residency/work permit for Japan? I've done some searching and am not finding the prerequisites.

Thanks!

Many thoughts on this thread and have other stuff to do for a couple hours but hope to post later. For now, a link worth looking at re: visas is:

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2221.html

At the bottom are further links too.

Mike

Wow , and to think that I missed most of this discussion while I was asleep:eek: ..........
I thought I would add a viewpoint from out here in Inaka(countryside , less concrete). I've been here for now 16 years, I can't believe it ! The first 5 years were great, lots of work, great money, played hard ! After that bubble burst it became quite a slog(life can be like that at times, anywhere). I can't believed I stayed........Have I intergrated? I don't think I have in the utopian sense of the word. I came to a realization that the folks around me weren't going to change to accomodate me(yes, I know, shocking....)and that I would have to change a bit to accomodate them. I have tried and have been pretty successful, but I would like to to say that "NO", intergration is not possible in my case (if you mean assimilation). As we all(OP, Pickles, myself) come from the same background I was pretty well grounded in what or who I am. I love the Japanese, they are truly a wonderful bunch, but I couldn't manage the stress of all the different "Kai" I would have to be part of to join in. Things still p!ss me off, like how I pay quite a lot of taxes but recieve "NO" services in exchange....
I live my life, my way. I take vacations, sometimes long ones......I take vacations with Japanese friends, who know that when they get to another country that they are "gaijin" too. I have met some great folks from all stratas of life here. I have good friends who are Doctors, Dentists, Professional Cyclists, Designers, Reporters, Professors, Teachers, Ministers, Monks.........not to mention Mr. Bear the computer nut;). I've volunteered for things that I thought were worthy causes , try and give back a bit.
I've made some money , and lost some money too. Hopefully I will be able to retire when I am 80. Like someone else said, there are many "currents" in Japanese society. You can make friends, once you find the current you like. I recently started to take macrobiotic cooking classes. The food while healthy is not what anyone would call gourmet. But I have met a whole group of folks that I never new existed. I also joined a local city run gym (join is a loose term). Lot's of "old" folks when I go in the morning, costs 150 YEN each time. It is certainly not Golds in Aoyama, but it does the trick. Again I met some men(whom I would otherwise have no contact with) who were interested in getting back into shape after years of abuse. It's always interesting to hear their version of the "story" of life.
If you get really "lucky" you will be invited back to a Japanese persons home. Often you will be stuck in the Tatami room with the ancestors..........after a few more trips, they will probably give up with the formality and invite you into the kitchen^ .

If you wish to "slightly" intergrate then I hope you will endevour to learn some of the language and some of the cultural nuances too, it will really make life that much easier.

Air-inc provides rates for Housing, Goods & Services, and Transportation based on family size and annual income (I think the latter might actually be a "type" of person for example manager, technical, etc but translated to income by my company). Each of these numbers are quoted in Yen. However, from each of these is subtracted a "sending rate" in dollars that is supposed to equal what I "normally" would be spending for each of these back in the states.

In my case, my company uses a Boston equivalent. Therefore, the company is only paying for what they think I am "losing" by taking the assignment. In addition, since the cost is based in Yen and sending rate is based in dollars, they somewhat protect me from exchange rate concerns.

Marc

First to comment on the OP's questions:

I see two main sticking points here: services for children with special needs, and medical research employment.

Japan is not a very friendly country for anyone with disabilities, although this is changing somewhat, and schools are no exception. This is something you will definitely want to look into carefully before moving to Japan.

As far as medical research employment goes, you're probably going to have a bit of a difficulty (read this the Japanese way: that is, it is impossible) unless you can speak fluent Japanese. The Japanese aren't keen to just hire a random foreigner off the street for a position that a Japanese person could just as easily do, and they are doubly unlikely to do so if that foreigner does not speak perfect Japanese and know the country's customs inside and out.

As far as a work visa for a spouse, this should be fairly easy. As long as they can find a job and someone willing to sponsor the visa, they should have no problems as long as they meet the requirements (having at least a 4 year college degree being the main one).

As to schooling for a non special needs child: there are two main things to consider. How old are your children, and how long do you plan on staying in Japan? If your children are young (say, preschool through grade 1 or so) and you plan on staying in Japan for the foreseeable future, you might want to look into just enrolling them in a regular Japanese school. Young kids adapt quickly. As far as older students or short-term arrangements go, there are a number of American schools in Japan that should fit the bill. You might want to look at http://www.tokyowithkids.com/.

Now, regarding the issue of assimilation. I think the main problem people have is that they move to a foreign country with a foreign culture and language and expect it to be just like home. They expect that people will speak English, that they will be able to find the same food, etc. Basically, they expect that the foreign culture will somehow change to fit *them*.

If you realize that this goes the other way around, and that *you* are the one who has to try and change to fit the new culture, you will have a much better time. Try to learn the language and use it. Try to learn the customs and follow them. This is, of course, easier said than done. But do make an effort. It will definitely be appreciated by the locals and will help you to make new friends. Even a minimal language ability and knowledge of local customs is greatly appreciated.

(As a side note, I get sick every time I read another story about some expat in Japan playing the "but I don't know any better - I'm a foreigner!" card to get out of trouble when they know full well that they shouldn't have done whatever it is in the first place. I have talked with people who speak fluent Japanese and have lived in Japan for years, but always carry one of those little phrase books with them to pull out and play dumb with if they get into a difficult situation.)

In any case, I think that if you go into it with the right frame of mind, you'll have a great time in Japan. I hope this was at least somewhat helpful! :)

Thanks for the information. I think I may need to point out that I'm the disabilities are not severe. My 8 year-old is very intelligent but has some problems with his writing skills which are either related to small motor skills or dysgraphia. We should know which in the next 2-3 weeks. The 5 year-old has a bit of a lisp/pronunciation issue and gets some speech therapy. I am not talking about special needs such as down syndrome or autism.

My wife is a medical lab technician with a 2 year degree, certification and 12 years of experience in a lab doing genetics-related medical research. She doesn't speak Japanese. From what you are saying it is going to be pretty impossible for her to work in Japan. She'll be happy about that.

(We will both be taking Japanese lessons and while I speak 2.5 languages fluently she speaks 3. Each language we speak has a different character set so hopefully the Japanese language will be kind to us. :) )

That website is really the motherload of information that I've been looking for about although it seems to not be maintained. I tried to register for the dicussions forum and got page errors. :(

Assuming we relocate in the summer our sons will be entering 4th and 1st grade. We are not looking at moving to Japan but to live there temporarily for up to 3 or so as part of my job for a small software vendor. That said, one never knows how long you will stay somewhere once you move. If we were looking to move there permanently I'd explore Japanese schools. The kids understand some basic English and an experiment last summer proved that they can pick it up very fast so we're less concerned about that. I assume that the English-language schools also teach some Japanese language to the students but that may be a large assumption on my part.

A very interesting thread.

I have been doing serious research into the field of ex-pat failure rates. I have been trying to define and quantify the failure rates for American ex-pat business people. I have also done presentations on this subject. While my research is not yet near finished, here are a few comments:

Early departure due to adjustment problems of spouces is the number one reason for failure. This is not America.

1. You need to have a daily conversation with your spouce about things that occur each day before small diferences/problems get out of hand.

2. You need to have a suport group. That's what these folks on this board are doing when they have lunch. I wish they would chose a day when I am available : ).

3. You need to realize that friends in your suport group will probably leave Japan.

4. You can't have a New York god style. : ) "You asked me to come here because I am so smart, so do it my way".

5. It takes a very long time to learn and understand this culture. A good (but old book) is Polite Fictions.

6. People complain that Japanese do not give feedback. This is not true. You need to learn how to spot the signals.

7. Dont you just hate it when they say "Im sorry, Im sorry" all the time..Well actualy, that means "I want to have a good relationship"

Hope this helps...have to run