robyng:

A few comments on your interesting post.

First, you can double the people sharing the space on the Kanto plain. Tokyo and surroundings should field around 27 million happy campers if not a few more.

Mt.Fuji - You remember John Carpenter's classic horror flick The Fog? Well, it's being replayed most days around Fuji-san. Better ask ahead if the visibility is more than a hundred meters or so during your visit.

If Tokyo should not be authentic Japan, the people living there surely are, for many either willingly or out of despair move from all over Japan to the capital to find work, better chances and/or a new life.

Commuting to Narita - Just my opinion, but even with an afternoon flight I would prefer to stay in the neighbourhood for the previous night. Too many close calls in the past 15 years I've promised myself not to repeat. ;)

I would love to live in Kamakura. :) From there I could commute to the curry rice temple adjacent to Shinjuku station once a week to get my fix of city culture and return to the tranquility.

Ding ding ding
 

Nikko!!!!!!!!!

I don't know if you guys remember me :p someday I'll really write an essay about my infamous remark (which I'm going to start charging royalties on), but this is what I was getting at. Going to Nikko, and to a lesser extent Nara, really made me feel like I was "in" Japan. Then again, so did riding the Shinkansen.

Twenty seven million may be the metro area as opposed to the city limits? My husband and I live in the Jacksonville FL area (it is the largest city in terms of square miles in the US - and its only other current claim to fame is that we're hosting some of the early rounds of the NCAA basketball tournament). Population a bit over a million. We are spending a day with a son of a friend of ours and his family (they live in Tokyo). They told us to expect a place about the size of Jacksonville - with about 30 times as many people. Sounds about right - and more than a little intimidating.

We have lived in Florida - one of the flattest places on earth - for more than 30 years. We are very unused to rolling hills - much less mountains. I got my husband to drive up the side of a volcano in Hawaii and along the fjords of Norway perhaps a decade ago - but I don't think he would feel comfortable doing that today. And his knee is shot from years of running - so climbing Mt. Fuji is even more out of the question. At this point - he would prefer to see mountains from a distance - perhaps with a martini in hand :) . And if they are covered with fog - so be it.

I don't know why so many people are so down on Tokyo. Sounds like a wonderful city to me. I could probably spend an entire afternoon exploring chocolate shops!

On a more serious note - 3 questions.

Our flight from Narita isn't until 4 pm - maybe 4:30. Would that be a close call if we tried to make it from Kyoto using an early morning train? Seems like plenty of time - and I'd hate to waste a night in an airport hotel with such a late flight (we're already spending 2 nights in airport hotels in the US because we don't want to leave home at 4 am or arrive home after midnight -JAX doesn't have the best international connections in the world - and neither does MCO if you're going to Tokyo).

We had dinner with some friends who've been to Japan a few times - and - after our dinner - I put a big star next to Kamakura - with notes like "must go". Were our friends right? We have 5 days in Tokyo - and I'd hate to waste one on a day trip if it isn't a "must go".

What is the "curry rice temple". I have heard of Gyoza Stadium - and hope to get there - but have not heard of the "curry rice temple". Robyn

P.S. We are staying at the Granvia in Kyoto - which is right over the rail station.

Tokyo is one place I go back to again and again... even for a short stay. food, shopping, onsen...



1) You should have enough time... But I usually would come back to Tokyo the day before, do last minute shopping, etc.. so do a 4-5-1 trip instead of a 5-5. I'd like the peace of mind.

Definitely gotta do gyoza stadium... at least for an afternoon snack.

I am not sure what you mean by "in Japan". I have a regular weekly internet chat with some friends I've picked up over the years on line (have been speaking with one for over 5 years!). Last week - her son was on spring break with a Japanese/American friend from college (he was born in Japan - but he and his family live in the US now). So I chatted with the son's friend. And we were talking about video arcades. At first he was enthusiastic about my trying them. And then - upon reflection - he told me about some things that go on in those places that I - as a 58 year woman - might not be comfortable with (they're kind of raunchy). I found his description interesting - but what I found particularly interesting was that he was discussing the stuff with me at all (and he - as a 19 year old young man - didn't seem the slightest bit uncomfortable). He was just so - well - matter of fact about certain sexual things. Something I've read about Japan - but never experienced personally.

I've traveled a fair amount - and it suits me not to romanticize countries based on historical places/events. I suspect there is less tension between ancient Japan and contemporary Japan than say - perhaps - between ancient Egypt and contemporary Egypt (it is always better when a country is wealthier today than it was 500 or 5000 years ago). Still - there is probably some tension.

So what do you mean by "in Japan"? Robyn

Don't worry robyng - It does not need to be a close call. There are plenty of trains which leave Kyoto in the morning and give you ample time to reach Narita for a 2.00pm check in.

Do some searches on hyperdia for routes from KYOTO to NARITA AIRPORT on the day of your departure.

http://grace.hyperdia.com/cgi-english/hyperd01.cgi

If you are using a JR pass, then you will need to use "Hikari" trains (because the pass is not valid on "Nozomi" trains).

Based on today's timetable, that you could take a Hikari train from Kyoto at 10.00am and arrive at 1.57pm.

If you prefer a little more "cushion" (like I do) then you might choose to take an earlier train - such as the Hikari at 09.36am or 09.00am.

Bottom line = It's pefectly feasible for you to reach Narita in plenty of time to catch a 4pm flight.

Wow
 

I have read your message 2 or 3 times and I'm not at all sure what you are asking.

Don't worry, it's mutual! :) (I don't understand what you mean by 'in japan' either!)

Nikko is an overblown, overwrought monument to a Shogun and showcases a very much dead and gone era, and within that, the lives of a miniscule segment of the population. As a piece of history – Nikko is magnificent! But even 150 years ago, it had very little to do with the everyday lives of the Japanese people – apart from its priests and ‘emissaries’ who bribed and bullied their way across Japan on their way to Kyoto, extorting all the money they could from the merchants, farmers and porters en route (in many communities threats that the ‘Nikko emissary’ was coming was used in the same way as ‘The Bogeyman’ is used to quieten unruly children in the West). It represents Japan in a similar way to how the Taj Mahal represents India.

‘In Japan’ means many things – if I want to step back to the era depicted in the exquisite films of Yasujiro Ozu, then I head off to Kamakura (and there are shops there that haven’t changed since the 60s. I’d love to live there too!). - Sengakuji (where the 47 Ronin are enshrined) is a peaceful (almost sombre) oasis amongst a quiet, affluent residential area sandwiched between two of Tokyo's more important business districts – many people still come to pay their respects here so that this piece of history seems strangely contemporary and ‘real’. And I could go on… and on… I’ll stop before this turns into a full essay.

But the quintessential feeling of being ‘in Japan’ for me is sitting around the warmth of the Kotatsu at my Grandmother-in-law's home, drinking tea and watching the Enka singers on the ‘red & white’ show underneath a simple shrine for the Shinto spirits, with incense burning in another part of the room dedicated to my Grandfather-in-law . A step outside the door of this small wooden house and you’re confronted with the ‘Empire State Building’ replica at Takashimaya Shinjuku.

phred - robyng was inviting you to explain why you got your own quintessential being 'in Japan' feelings from Nara and Nikko. What was it about these places that made them feel more 'real' to you?

I really wish you would!!! No need to go for an essay – but it would be nice to know what you personally believe is worthwhile in Tokyo.

Part of why I like this forum so much is because I don’t agree with everything written here – however, the differences in view have done much to open my eyes to aspects of Japan I would have remained unaware of or ignorant about (not always the same thing ;) ). The more removed the view portrayed here is from my own, the more interesting it is to me – but only if the thinking and logic behind it is explained. I’ve felt incredibly privileged in this forum, and gotten an awful lot out of it, as I can rely on almost everyone who contributes here to explain the remarks and suggestions they make. However, this behaviour has led to a terrible habit… I take what people say here seriously. I literally cannot imagine how to reduce a visit to Tokyo to 1.5 days – even trying to is like imagining edges to the universe, or tackling a rubiks cube. As your remark gets quoted so often, I suspect that others here have gone through the same mental gymnastics I have. An unsolvable conundrum made from a simple formula is memorable, and sticks in the craw. I’d like to think that you did not intend for your comment to become an inscrutable riddle – hence my initial, and very genuine request, for assistance in unravelling it.

I check out a few tours VacationsToGo.com and a few websites. It seems cheaper than I make the reservation in the middle class hotel. Personally I like to go by myself. I have the freedom. Doing the research and prepare the trip is adventure and learning experience with planning. I have never on vacation just with my son who is 13 years old . He does not like to walk. I am not sure whether it goes well without the tour.

Thanks.

Ooh, yikes! A 13 year old who doesn’t like to walk… in Japan! Now that’s tough!!!!

The only itinerary I can suggest for you is to get a Hakone Free pass to explore this part of the country (can be done as a day trip from Tokyo). You basically go on a circuit of the area – starting with train, then onto a train which is pulled up a steep slope by cable, then onto a couple of suspended cable cars, then a ship and finally a bus. Lots of sights to see, not much walking to do.

I'm sure that, in your case, an organised tour may very well be the best way to go.

Well! I thought I was the only one. I am intersted in history, particularly feudal history, so I was glad I made the effort to get out to old Ieyasu's monument, and it is beautiful. On the other hand, it is a 2 hour, one-way train ride, followed by a lot of hill-walking around a glorified graveyard, followed by another 2 hour train ride back to Tokyo. I wouldn't do it again and recommend friends who are not so history oriented to consider other day trips. Kamakura, Kyoto, Nara, Horyu-ji, Himeji and a variety of other, more accessible places seem to be better choices for time-limited travelers. For cemetery enthusiasts, Yanaka comes to mind. :p

Don't get me wrong. Nikko is nice. Just not near the top of my list to use up most of a day in Japan.

JR

In your particular case, you may be right - you'd be better off with something organized that will bus you around to the various sites. My recommendations were for someone who travels like me - using local public transportation, staying in low-cost inns, walking from site to site and generally blending in to the area as much as possible. Your comment about doing the research and planning the trip being part of the adventure really struck home with me. I agree! However, that doesn't sound like what you are looking for this time.

Good luck on your trip with your son. Have a wonderful time.

JR

The "curry rice temple" mentioned earlier is just a drab two floor curry rice and gyoza centered fast food place a short distance from JR Shinjuku. Very basic, always full of hungry salarymen and OLs and addictive.

what I did
 

Hi there - when I took my 1st trip to Japan, I was afraid I would never get back again, so I tried to see as much of what interested me as possible.

This itinerary reflected my own personal interests, and wanting to cram in as much as possible - I travelled with a rail pass and public transport. What I did (just generally with respect to cities visited), which looks an awful lot like what you propose to do - it was really a 'whirlwind tour' that left me with blisters on top of my blisters from the walking I did, but it was a nice introduction to Japan for me. I let jet lag work in my favor and was up with the lark on my sightseeing.

Day 1 - arrive Tokyo late afternoon, overnight Tokyo
Day 2 - Tokyo - up at the crack of dawn to visit Tsukiji, walked through Ginza to TIC, walked through grounds of Imperial Palace, and through the associated gardens along to Yasukuni shrine. Then took subway to Shibuya, and walked through Shibuya up Koen dori to go to Harajuku - visited Meiji shrine, and strolled along Take....a dori - this day nearly killed my feet.
Day 3 - Tokyo - Sensoji temple and Asakusa, Kappabashi dori, Ueno Park - visited Toshogu and Inari shrines, Tokyo national Museum, ....amachi Museum, Ameyoko arcade
Day 4 - Shinjuku - walking tour around parts of area in day, Tokyo Tocho for views over city, back to Shibuya for some shopping
Day 5 - Got up VERY early to get earliest possible train for Fuji Hakone - did the 'Loop' on the Hakone Free Pass, and got back to Odawara in time to make connections that same day to Takayama (Whirlwind visit of Fuji-Hakone area
Day 6 Takayama - strolled sanmachi suji, visited morning markets, saw festival floats museum (the one in the town proper), Takayama Jinya, and about an hour thorugh the Hida Takayama open air museum. Caught an afternoon train direct to Kyoto.
Day 7 - Kyoto - Ginkakuji, Walked Philosopher's Path, visited Nanzenji temple, Heian Shrine, evening stroll in Pontocho
Day 8 - Kyoto - Nishikikoji markets,Kiyomizu temple, Sannenzaka, Ryozen Kannon, Kodaiji Temple, Yasaka Shrine, then took bus to Sanjusangendo
Day 9 - Kinkakuji, Nijo Temple
Day 10 - took very early train back to Tokyo, dumped bags in station locker, did a bit of Ginza shopping, then took Narita express to airport to catch flight.

When I did happily get back the second time, I planned a more leisurely itinerary...