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-   -   Train : Tokyo to Kyoto (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan/401768-train-tokyo-kyoto.html)

thesilb Aug 9, 2005 4:27 pm

Okay, regular JR Pass it is then. Thanks again everyone!! Only three weeks until our around the world trip - I am very excited!! Really appreciate the help with Japan train planning. A daunting topic for a first timer. Thanks again. ^

abmj-jr Aug 9, 2005 10:20 pm


Originally Posted by thesilb
Okay, regular JR Pass it is then. Thanks again everyone!! Only three weeks until our around the world trip - I am very excited!! Really appreciate the help with Japan train planning. A daunting topic for a first timer. Thanks again. ^

Something else just occured to me. You will be using a JR Pass for your train trips. This means that you cannot ride the Nozomi trains and will have to opt for the slightly slower Hikari shinkansens. The trip time is not a problem as the time difference is less than 1/2 hour or so Tokyo-Kyoto, but you will be limited in departures. I understand that many of the old Hikari departures are now Nozomi, so you will have less options to choose from. Your idea of reserving everything ahead upon arrival should allow you to avoid problems, but best to be aware of the limitations.

JR

railroadtycoon Aug 10, 2005 10:43 am

From Tokyo-Kyoto usually there are 2 Hikari Shinkansen's per hour (one at the top of the hour and another at the bottom of the hour).

Unless you are travelling duing peak holiday season in Japan, finding a seat shouldn't be much of a problem.
You have the unreserved section, if boarding at Tokyo Station you should be able to snag a seat in the off chance things get sold out in the reserved sections.

I think you'll be fine, I hope you have fun in Japan.

stimpy Aug 12, 2005 9:04 am

I'm thinking of taking the Tokyo-Kyoto Nozumi train (that's the fast one, right?) next Friday afternoon (Aug 19th) in the green car. I'm guessing that may be a busy time. Should I reserve now?

railroadtycoon Aug 12, 2005 9:28 am

From Tokyo to Kyoto the Nozomi takes 2hrs 20minutes. Hikari takes 2hours 37minutes. Nozomi offers more departures per hour.

If you have a JR Railpass the Nozomi is not covered by the railpass so you would have to go for Hikari.

If you are paying single fare I would reserve whatever train is available. Greenseats add about another 4,000yen to the ticket price, If green is sold out opt for regular seating. Don't forget to ask for nonsmoking/smoking as well.

abmj-jr Aug 12, 2005 10:11 am


Originally Posted by railroadtycoon
If you are paying single fare I would reserve whatever train is available. Greenseats add about another 4,000yen to the ticket price, If green is sold out opt for regular seating. Don't forget to ask for nonsmoking/smoking as well.

What he said. :D

I've never felt that the green car is worth the extra money but YMMV.

Have a great time. Kyoto is just about my favorite city in the world.

JR

GadgetFreak Aug 14, 2005 8:38 pm

I took the Nozomi round trip between Tokyo and Kyoto this past April. In both directions I just showed up at the station and told them I wanted a Green Car Nozomi and booked it on the spot with a train leaving in less than 30 minutes. They are very frequent during most of the day.

jib71 Aug 14, 2005 10:15 pm


Originally Posted by stimpy
I'm thinking of taking the Tokyo-Kyoto Nozumi train (that's the fast one, right?) next Friday afternoon (Aug 19th) in the green car. I'm guessing that may be a busy time. Should I reserve now?

It might be rather busy, since people are moving all around the country right now for the Obon holidays.

IMHO - It is worth reserving now if you know what time you are going to travel. If you aren't sure, then make a reservation for a departure which is somewhat later than you expect to travel.

When you show up on the day, you can go to a ticket window and see if they can change your reservation for a seat on an earlier train. If not, you can take your chances in an unreserved car (regular class - there are no green unreserved seats) or wait for your scheduled departure.

Give me a shout if you find yourself with time for a beer at Tokyo station before departure - I'll be in the area on Friday afternoon.

gj1 Aug 15, 2005 9:33 am

My family is planning a trip to Tokyo next year and we want to take a side trip to Kyoto. However, my wife is in a wheelchair. Does anyone know if the trains are wheelchair accessible? Thanks.

jib71 Aug 15, 2005 10:33 am


Originally Posted by gj1
My family is planning a trip to Tokyo next year and we want to take a side trip to Kyoto. However, my wife is in a wheelchair. Does anyone know if the trains are wheelchair accessible? Thanks.

There are elevators from the lower levels of Tokyo station up to the platforms of the Shinkansen (The Bullet trains which run from Tokyo to Osaka). And I know that Tokyo station itself has ramps which allow access from various parts of the station). I imagine Kyoto station is quite good in this respect because it is very, very new.

On the bullet trains themselves some the lavatories are designed with features for disabled passengers. (For example - door is activated by large "OPEN" and "CLOSE" buttons at a low height - and the lavatory is more spacious than a regular one etc.).

However, it's hard for me to judge if these facilities really make the facilities accessible. I don't see very many wheelchairs on those trains. I have a feeling that some parts of the stations are probably rather inaccessible - with stairs etc.

Regarding subways in Tokyo - I often see the subway attendants (at two of the stations which I regularly use) assisting people with wheelchairs. It seems that some of the escalators can actually create a "platform" of three or four steps - which can be set to remain flat. It all looks quite clever to me. A neat way of "retrofitting" some older stations where they simply cannot put in an elevator.

The "Oedo Line" - Tokyo's newest subway line - received a "good design" award for having elevators to all platforms. But I saw a protest by some disabled people at my local station, because the elevators bring you out at the "wrong end" of the station - hundreds of meters away from the shops. And it's not easy to do that trip in a wheelchair (think kerbs, tight corners etc.) which makes the elevator irrelevant really.

So - I guess I'm trying to say that there seems to be a lot of disability awareness on the "surface." But I would not be surprised if the results aren't really all that usable. I'll see if I can come up with some better info.

railroadtycoon Aug 15, 2005 12:35 pm

I can't give a clear cut answer since it depends on if a station has been renovated, new or old and its location. Things improve the newer or renovated the stations are.
Stations that serve the Shinkansen (bullet train) I believe are easier accessable, However there are still many stations (commuter, subways etc) that have restricted access.

From my observations elevators can be found at major stations and become less the further out you travel.
Seek assistance from station staff for help with access.

If I had a tip it would be to avoid rush hour and travel during offpeak travel times.

RichardInSF Aug 15, 2005 2:06 pm

I don't regard Tokyo as at all wheelchair friendly. You will have a hard time. The stations that have elevators have often situated them so that they are hard to find. At Tokyo station, to go from the Narita Express to the shinkansen, you need to take two different elevators and the second one is rather hard to find (the first is right on the platform where the train arrives).

In most stations, there is no easy wheelchair access, it will have to be lugged up and down stairs. If you can find staffers, they will probably help if you can make your needs known. Allocate lots of extra time.

Taxis are rarely wheelchair friendly as well, it's unlikely a folded chair would fit in the trunk for most of them.

Sorry!

jib71 Aug 15, 2005 8:05 pm

Some links
 
Hi -

Here are a few places to start:

(1) A comment from the 1988 Seminar on Building Non-Handicapping Environments:

"Although Japan is the second largest country in the world in terms of GNP, it is still a developing country in terms of building environments which are also accessible to persons with disabilities."

http://www.independentliving.org/cib/cibtokyo2.html

So have things improved since then?
1988 is roughly when I first visited Japan. I believe things have improved - for example I've seen that the major railway stations have been or are being upgraded for wheelchair access. Also, there are many more signs in English than there were back in 1988, which is helpful for all people who don't read Japanese - whether in a wheelchair or not.

However, outside of major railway stations and new government buildings, I think that the situation is still that Japan is a "developing country" in this respect.

I can imagine, in particular, that many of the old temples and historical tourist attractions are full of steps and staircases with no wheelchair access.

(2) Couple of trip reports by people who visited Kyoto in wheelchairs:

http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1502/...wheelchair.htm

http://www.ablelink.org/public/audre...ttingthere.htm

(3) Some guides to accessible Tokyo / Kyoto etc.

http://accessible.jp.org/title2-e.html

http://www.jtbgmt.com/japannow/opera...rations23.html


I found some other materials in Japanese, but I'm guessing that they won't be much help.


(4) Taxis

http://www.tokyomk.com/eng/e_skyshuttle.html

Probably worth calling Nihon Kotsu taxi company to check if they offer mini-van type taxis with wheelchair ramps. They have an English speaking reservations desk:
http://www.nihon-kotsu.co.jp/en/taxi/ephone.html


I hope this helps. Beyond this, I would suggest contacting people who have actually done some tourism in Japan by wheelchair. No doubt they can tell it like it really is...

gj1 Aug 15, 2005 8:47 pm


Originally Posted by jib71
Hi -

Here are a few places to start:

(1) A comment from the 1988 Seminar on Building Non-Handicapping Environments:

"Although Japan is the second largest country in the world in terms of GNP, it is still a developing country in terms of building environments which are also accessible to persons with disabilities."

http://www.independentliving.org/cib/cibtokyo2.html

So have things improved since then?
1988 is roughly when I first visited Japan. I believe things have improved - for example I've seen that the major railway stations have been or are being upgraded for wheelchair access. Also, there are many more signs in English than there were back in 1988, which is helpful for all people who don't read Japanese - whether in a wheelchair or not.

However, outside of major railway stations and new government buildings, I think that the situation is still that Japan is a "developing country" in this respect.

I can imagine, in particular, that many of the old temples and historical tourist attractions are full of steps and staircases with no wheelchair access.

(2) Couple of trip reports by people who visited Kyoto in wheelchairs:

http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1502/...wheelchair.htm

http://www.ablelink.org/public/audre...ttingthere.htm

(3) Some guides to accessible Tokyo / Kyoto etc.

http://accessible.jp.org/title2-e.html

http://www.jtbgmt.com/japannow/opera...rations23.html


I found some other materials in Japanese, but I'm guessing that they won't be much help.


(4) Taxis

http://www.tokyomk.com/eng/e_skyshuttle.html

Probably worth calling Nihon Kotsu taxi company to check if they offer mini-van type taxis with wheelchair ramps. They have an English speaking reservations desk:
http://www.nihon-kotsu.co.jp/en/taxi/ephone.html


I hope this helps. Beyond this, I would suggest contacting people who have actually done some tourism in Japan by wheelchair. No doubt they can tell it like it really is...


Wow, thanks for all the info. Much more than I expected.

SoManyMiles-SoLittleTime Aug 17, 2005 7:58 pm

General reply
 
Took Bullet train (Noizumi) from Osaka to Tokyo last week on a Friday.

About $130 one way, reserved, not green car. Bought ticket at Shin-Osaka station. Trains seemed to be every 1/2 hour or so. Got one for 35 minutes in the future (3 tickets). Had time to buy some snacks, take escalator up to boarding area, then wait for train. Left on the dot of 11:16 as scheduled.

Time = ~2.5 hours.

Train stopped in Kyoto, so knock off not much more than 15 minutes for that leg.

Nothing special or interesting about the train, except that it's pretty darned fast. You don't have any real sense of the speed though becuase it's so smooth. Food/bevs available for purchase on the train (just like United airlines :D ).


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