directcj

Planning for an 8 day / 8 night trip, mid-October. This is our 2nd trip to Japan, and we did Tokyo-Kyoto, mostly Kyoto in the Arashiyama area and Gion

Will be arriving in Tokyo and would like to do a night in Hakone and a night in Kawaguchiko / Mt Fuji
We are planning to purchase the JR pass before the price increase for the Tokyo-Kyoto transport options but am lost regarding transport to/from Hakone and Mt Fuji area. There seems to be the Fuji-Hakone 3 day pass but am wondering if this is still reqd to purchase with a the JR pass

There appears to be plenty of options available but we're trying to see which option to do
Day 1 Tokyo - arrive
Day 2 Tokyo-Kawaguchiko via FujiExpress?
Day 3 Kawaguchiko - Hakone (what is time efficient transport?)
Day 4 Hakone-Kyoto - via Shinkansen
Day 5 Kyoto
Day 6 Kyoto
Day 7 Kyoto-Tokyo via Shinkansen
Day 8 Tokyo

Our initial research seems to indicate it might be easier / time efficient to do just visit Hakone and Kawaguchiko from Tokyo than to squeeze it in between Tokyo-Kyoto
for example:
Day 1 Tokyo
Day 2 Tokyo - Kawaguchiko / Mt Fuji
Day 3 Kawaguchiko / Mt Fuji - Tokyo
Day 4 Tokyo - Kyoto
Day 5 Kyoto
Day 6 Kyoto - Hakone
Day 7 Hakone - Tokyo via Shinkansen?
Day 8 Tokyo - flight

Suggestions / recommendations welcomed

LapLap

Are you sure you want to use the JR pass for a trip to Kawaguchiko?

Mt Fuji won�t have any snow on it in October. Assuming you even see it, this is what it looks like at the moment

directcj

Well aware there might not be any snow in October. We'd still like to "try" and go to Hakone and Kawaguchiko
Should we not buy the JR Pass then? What do you suggest?
If not, what are our transport options and cost? I see that there is a 3 day Fuji-Hakone pass which will cover the Fuji-Hakone area. Fuji Express/Excursion is partly covered with the JR Pass.
I'm estimating that with the JR Pass the cost for Tokyo-Hakone and Hakone-Kyoto then Kyoto-Tokyo partially covers the bullet trains. Since we'll be arriving in Haneda we'll also be able to use it to travel into Tokyo and somewhat around Tokyo and Kyoto whenever using the JR trains. I might be off as I"m just estimating. Might be a question in the JR Pass thread (cost increase)

What we're struggling with is whether to do Hakone and/or Kawaguchiko as day trips from Tokyo or to travel from Tokyo-Kawaguchiko-Hakone-Kyoto-Tokyo.

jib71

Although these two places are not far apart, they're not well connected by scheduled buses and trains. What you could do in an hour by car will take over three hours by public transit (and you'll be a hostage to the timetables). If you're determined to visit both Kawaguchi and Hakone, I would suggest a one-way car rental, but I wonder why you want to visit both. I would advise picking one.

LapLap

Just direct shinkansen tickets to Kyoto and back and get the reserved/non reserved seat portion of the tickets for the sections you want which will allow a stopover in Odawara for the Hakone visit. Nozomi trains are also an option this way.

There is a video by “Solo Travel Japan” on YouTube called “How to Make the Most of Your Shinkansen Tickets in Japan without a JR Pass | POV Vlog” which shows how to build an itinerary using shinkansen base fares. You’ll need to get a little creative to include Odawara and get a transfer to a faster train but it can be done.

Since there is no/little financial difference between getting a pass and not getting one, the actual suggestion I would give a friend is to consider a different itinerary entirely. But that would be a long chat between friends with all the nuances intact.

directcj

Thanks for the tips. The photo somewhat dampened the excitement but a dose of reality is good.
At this point we will most likely not stay overnight in Kawaguchiko and am considering just a day trip only to the area. With limited time/resources we're probably not do Hakone and may just consider day trips to either Nikko, Little Edo, or Kawaguchiko. We may also do a trip to Osaka while in Kyoto since it sounds to be only a 30 min bullet train ride away. All depends on our stamina.

directcj

Last time we went (2016) we did Tokyo-Kyoto with the JR Pass - 2 nights Tokyo - 2 nights Kyoto - 1 night Tokyo, inbound Narita, outbound Haneda. I don't have all the pricing details but my recollection was that it was somewhat of a wash pricewise but the flexibility to be able to use the JR Pass within the 2 cities made it easier

This time... we're now thinking Tokyo-Kyoto-(Osaka)-Kyoto-Tokyo. Will have to price out:
Tokyo-Kyoto
Kyoto-Osaka-Kyoto
Kyoto-Tokyo
Tokyo- Kawaguchiko, or Nikko, or Little Edo
Local trains/subway within Tokyo and Kyoto
HND-TYO-HND

Where does one do the pricing individually?
Buying through the "official" JR site (https://japanrailpass.net/en/purchase.html) yields a price of 33610 Yen for the 7 Day. I see mention of a 29xxx Yen - where does one get this and why the difference in price?

Different itinerary now being considered. Agree regarding nuances and needing a long chat. Will check the YT Solo Travel - if you or others can provide that nuance and guidance here it would be appreciated. We are now 3 weeks out... all base camps set

IIRC, the JR Pass previously afforded the use of JR trains locally (ie Yamanote line) but possibly not the subway.
So, sounds like I'll have to purchase the Suica/Pasmo card and load up as we don't want to be limited with using only JR lines within Tokyo/Kyoto - is this a good plan?

jib71

I am not aware of a specific location called Little Edo. Sawara (Chiba Prefecture), Kawagoe (Saitama Prefecture), Tochigi-juku (Tochigi Prefecture), and several other towns are all referred to as "little Edos," as they still have some neighbourhoods or buildings that evoke the look and feel of the Edo period.

LapLap

�33,610 is the direct purchase price, which is convenient and, I understand, allows you to reserve seats on trains as soon as you acquire it.
Wasn’t an option for my own family as only foreigners can buy the JR Pass this way.

Instead it’s the “classic” JR Pass where you go through an agency and buy it in advance and get an exchange order for the eventual ticket. This is the JR Pass that costs under �30k. We bought ours from an agency in the UK.

If you scroll down your link and select your region you’ll find agencies that will also sell it at this price.
Downside is that you have to wait until you exchange the exchange order for the ticket-pass before you can reserve seats (not that you will really need to between Tokyo and Kyoto, getting unreserved seating shouldn’t be an issue, and if it somehow is, you can always backtrack to Osaka and get seats for the journey to Tokyo there)

As for how to price the itinerary… as you said, nearly useless in Tokyo and Kyoto except for day trips. You would struggle to get more than �500 of value daily just using it for normal sightseeing within Tokyo. It’s similar to using the �760 Tokunai pass https://www.jreast.co.jp/multi/en/pa...unai_pass.html
Might be even more useless in Kyoto

Here is a way to price your itinerary
https://www.jrpass.com/farecalculato...gaAuIXEALw_wcB

It’s only the day trips to Nikko/Kawaguchiko* that would make the JR Pass pay for itself and justify removing the faster Nozomi trains as options.

The nuanced discussion I would be having with my own friend involves the question as to whether said friend intends to ever return to Japan and will they regret not making more use of a pass that is about to disappear (in practical terms**) forever.

It shouldn’t matter which October your plans are for, but in this case it does. As the saying goes: To choose is to renounce. What gets renounced in October 2023 is way, way more than what would get renounced in October 2024 and beyond. Problem with asking people familiar with touring Japan is that we can see these passed on opportunities. It’s like watching someone choose 3 scoops of vanilla at a celebrated gelato counter which is just about to close down. Not that there is anything wrong with vanilla of course…

* JR Pass only covers travel to Otsuki, it’s the JR Tokyo Wide Pass (currently �10,180 for 3 days of travel, soon to go up to �15k) that covers the whole journey to Kawaguchiko. Nikko is also easier with a Tokyo Wide Pass than the JR Pass. https://www.jreast.co.jp/multi/en/pa...owidepass.html

** Will still be amazing value for a true high speed train enthusiast, but that’s a whole other kind of tourism.

directcj

Sorry... wasn't aware there were other "Little Edo's". I was referring specifically to Kawagoe. Saw this: https://tokyocheapo.com/entertainmen...goe-little-edo.

jib71

Bad title - It's "a little Edo" rather than "the little Edo."

directcj

Thanks for the pricing link.. unfortunately, something is off the last couple of days and it doesn't quite price things out. I was able to see pricing a couple of days ago but yesterday and today... zilch.

Went ahead and bought through the official site... I probably could have saved the 8,xxx yen or so for the 2 passes but the ability to book actual seats ahead of time might be worth it; or not? Correct me if i'm wrong but since I ordered the pass now the Nozomi option is no longer available? I'm confused as after October it sounds like I may be able to go on a Nozomi with the Pass by paying a supplemental fee and maybe save 15 minutes heading to Kyoto.

Although we're not going to do the the Kawaguchiko-Hakone trip it might be good to know how to do such a trip for the "next time" .... Is it better to do Kawaguchiko (or one of the Mt Fuji 5 lakes town) overnight then go back to Tokyo and do another overnight to Hakone or are they truly better as day trips from Tokyo? Maybe we might just do Odawara or Otsuki... who knows?

For now, there are possibilities.. Nikko? Kawagoe? Kamakura? how about at Kyoto? Last time we were fortunate to stay at Arahisayama but at the expense of not seeing much of Hagashiyama(sp) area.
Wish I could take more advantage of the pass and even do a 14 day one for even more trips in Japan - further north and also south.

One of the pleasures or is it headache? of trip planning is figuring out all these "nuances" that one has to consider. In the end, i've somewhat come to the conclusion - it can still be done for the next time. Hopefully we can be healthy and still do a next time.

LapLap

You bought two of the current passes for �33,610 each.

No Nozomi trains with these JR Passes.

No Nozomi trains after October. They will only become available to those who get the new version of the JR Pass, the one that costs �50,000 each and only if they then pay an additional supplemental fare, details of which have not yet (to my knowledge - which was outdated, see post #14) been disclosed.

No regular on this forum has, without a car, attempted to go from Hakone to Kawaguchiko. Jib71 took the trouble to explain why that is.
Would I do it? No.
I’ve been to Hakone a few times from Tokyo (it’s where I fell in love with my husband) but there are just too many other places I’ve wanted to go more than Kawaguchiko. After more than 20 years of visiting it is still far down on my own “places to see” list. I’m honestly not sure how one spends their time there when Fuji San isn’t visible and my general assumption is that Fuji San won’t be visible.
This review seems quite typical of those who go to the area and report back: https://www.manusmenu.com/kawaguchiko-guide-japan. Take out the ryokan/onsen experience and fill in the snow capped views with grey banks of cloud and fog and it’s hard to see what would be left for the reviewer to rave about.
But what do I know? I’ve never been.

Odawara to Otsuki? Sure, go for it! Hopefully you will stick around to advise the next person who’ll want to take this route. That’s what this forum is, a collection of people willing to share their experiences with others.

Others here are much better qualified to answer questions on Kyoto.

I go to Hakone from Tokyo with the Hakone Free Pass. The version I buy includes return rail fare from Shinjuku and I always stay overnight in Gora. The pass from Shinjuku can be upgraded with a supplement to include travel on the faster Romance Cars, but we’ve only done this when travelling with my Tokyo based Father-in-Law.

You could definitely take more advantage of the JR pass on this trip, go see Kanazawa between Kyoto and Tokyo.
Kawaguchiko can be an inexpensive excursion from Tokyo on a future visit in the late Fall or in Spring.

ETA
Here is a second opinion from another forum group
https://www.japan-guide.com/forum/qu....html?0+176913

Daytona

They have, and the pricing is truly absurd

The new Nozomi DLC is a ....ing rip-off. You need to buy a ticket for EACH USE of Nozomi/Mizuho

An EX early bird ticket from Tokyo to Hakata is 17720 yen
An EX-21 early bird ticket from Tokyo to Hakata is 17000 yen

Let's say you only use the EX early bird ticket
For a 7 day pass: 50000 + 8140x = 17720x, x = 5.21
You need to ride 6 one-way trips between Tokyo and Hakata within a week to recoup the cost 🤣

Or if we use the 21 day pass: 100000 + 8140x = 17720x, x = 10.43
11 one-ways in 3 weeks 🤣

Hell, even if I use the full-priced Nozomi ticket as a comparison
7 day pass: 50000 + 8140x = 23590x, x = 3.2
4 one-way trips between Tokyo and Hakata within a week

I think I will choose to fly instead

bmwe92fan

My wife and I travel often within Japan -- almost always now by plane as it is so easy (and cheap) compared to this nonsense - but we mostly fly from Tokyo to Yamaguchi / Kyushu.... Honestly I believe the government is trying to encourage more plane travel given the infrastructure investments they have made -- I mean honestly -- we took a 787 to NGS and an A350 back from FUK -- on flights under 2 hours while openly flaunting open bottles of water through security as we arrived at the airport 20 minutes before departure without any worries -- it was very nice....