mrploddy

Hi all,

Question for the more knowledgeable here - obviously we've all seen the news.

What would happen if there were tict for tact snactions placed which prevented airlines from using the a-typical Northern Siberian airpsace that they usually use for Europe to Asia and well in particular Japan.

Would it be a longer polar transit ?

-mrploddy

Q Shoe Guy

People get reacquainted with ANC ?

mrploddy

Isn't there like loner trans polar routes ?

I know middle Eastern carriers won't be affected like EK and QR but CX, BA etc will have trouble as they use Northern Siberian transits...

EDIT - Was ANC ever a thing for Europe -> Asia ?. ANC is mostly cargo these days isn't it ?

Q Shoe Guy

When I first arrived in Kyushu , they had a few flights via ANC to Europe. IIRC the BA flight was FUK-ITM-ANC-LHR.
Wouldn't the 777-300ER, 787-9, A350 have the legs to do the trans-polar over N.A. to Europe ?

mrploddy

BA had flights to FUK ? o____O...as in BA metal at Fukuoka Airport ????. How long ago was that ? What metal ?

When was that a thing ?

Q Shoe Guy

Early 90's BA 747, Qantas 747 , NorthWest (DC 10) Garuda DC 10 (crash) , Air Lanka A340/L1011 , MAS, SQ A310, TG A300 , CX L1011.....

AlwaysAisle

My understanding is that Russia makes good money from fees they collect from all those flights fly over Russian airspace. From that I think it is unlikely that Russia will prohibit none Russian aircraft from flying over their airspace.

I think it is more probable that other countries will prohibit aircraft from their countries to fly over Russian airspace for reason of a sanction/safety, but I wonder how likely that happening.

Europe-ANC-NRT was a major route, several flights daily, till USSR (yes, it was not Russia yet) opened up and removed restrictions on flying over their airspace.

I do think 777ER (both -200 and -300), 787, and A350 can fly polar region on Japan - Europe without flying over Russian airspace. But that will require additional fule and will not be as cost efficient as flying over Russian airspace. Additional information, the first airline to do Europe-Japan non-stop was AY (Finnair) which used DC-10-30ER back in '80s and flew over polar region without touching USSR airspace, without fuel stop at ANC. But the flight was weight restricted and only certain pecent of seats were sold, even flights were sold out there were empty seats on that flight.

Lomapaseo

History is full of political diversions, so it can be done even by re-arranging who you fly on.

What it morphs into are new planes for those that can afford so that fuel loads are not limiting.

psusaver

Edit: Never mind, didnt read the "routes to europe part correctly, Read it as through europe.

AA 292 (JFK-DEL and its return route) already fly without using Russian airspace since the launch in Nov 2021. So other airlines from eastern US might have to use similar route.

Flightaware route

boat stuck

Re-routing to the south of Russia will be more efficient than re-routing to the North, and doable non-stop without penalities on a 77W.

Detroiter

Mmmm, yes. Back in the ancient days of 707s and DC-8s (i.e., the 1960s and 1970s), airlines flew Europe-ANC-HND. As a high-school lad, I had a LH timetable that showed flights FRA-CPH-ANC-HND. I'm sure other airlines flew similar routes through ANC. At some point in the 70s, airlines were allowed to overfly the Soviet Union with intermediate stops in SVO, then were allowed today's nonstop flights over Russian airspace. All of this replaced the 1950s flights that went something like Europe-somewhere in the Middle East-somewhere in India-BKK-HKG-HND. Must have been absolutely exhausting on a piston-engine aircraft! I read years ago that ANC has a massive customs/immigration facility dating back to the days when it was a stop between Europe and Japan and also between the Eastern U.S. and Japan, and was a popular stopover for Europeans heading to or from Japan.

Steve M

It's unlikely that any such flights will ever return, as with the post-9/11 rules, such a flight would require offloading all of the passengers to pass through US Immigration. In addition to adding time to the fuel stop, it requires that all passengers be admissible to the US. I should add that the requirement on such a flight for all passengers to deplane and be processed by US Immigration was added shortly after 9/11, but initially it wasn't required that they be admissible. Non-admissible passengers on a through flight were allowed, as long as they weren't on some kind of watch list. Then they added the requirement that they be admissible to the US.

freckles123

You were able to immediately cite that from memory? Wow

wrp96

The North Terminal at ANC is still setup for international arrivals and could even be setup for transit, unlike offer US airports. The setup there made it the perfect place to be used for the first coronavirus evacuation flights to the US because of the ability to keep everyone separate.

Q Shoe Guy

Sadly no Instagram to prove any of it.