Affordable (Michelin-starred and otherwise) restaurants in Tokyo, Kyoto and Osaka?
Mar 11, 2019, 2:03 pm
#31
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Looking at another post you made here asking Omakasa at Michelin starred and Kaiseki, 4000 yen per person will be hard to come by. Also mentioned Wagyu, good Wagyu at a restaurant can easily be more than 5000 yen and can easily be more that 10000 yen. Top Wagyu restaurants can be 20000 yen plus. You mentioned city limit, it can take more than an hour each way to reach the city limit, not just Tokyo but also Osaka and Kyoto. Are you really willing to travel that far for a meal?
Mar 11, 2019, 2:06 pm
#32
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Depending on the mode of travel, there are tradeoffs between location and restaurant price. IMO the cost to two long taxi rides would be better spent eating at a restaurant close to one's hotel, ideally within walking distance.
Mar 11, 2019, 2:24 pm
#33
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Wagyu for 4000 is a stretch, even for lunch. You can have a lunch set for 4000 (or even less) but it would not be very enjoyable.
Department store restaurant floor usually have decent restaurants, often branch location of famous establishments, within that budget. For tempura and tonkatsu, 4000 would be towards the high end at restaurant floor. These places always take credit cards, have plastic model display for their dishes, often with multi-lingual memu and staff more likely to understand English.
One time a local took me to Tsunahachi main branch at Shinjuku. Supposed to be better than their department store branches. Waited in line for an hour. Can't say it's worth the wait.
Department store restaurant floor usually have decent restaurants, often branch location of famous establishments, within that budget. For tempura and tonkatsu, 4000 would be towards the high end at restaurant floor. These places always take credit cards, have plastic model display for their dishes, often with multi-lingual memu and staff more likely to understand English.
One time a local took me to Tsunahachi main branch at Shinjuku. Supposed to be better than their department store branches. Waited in line for an hour. Can't say it's worth the wait.
Mar 11, 2019, 7:01 pm
#34
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Tell you what. Why don't you buy the Michelin guide to Kyoto and Osaka? In there you'll see the list of all the Michelin-starred restaurants, with type of cuisine, price range, address, contact info, and some detail about the place. Then you can pick some that look interesting and start dialing for dollars. Report back here on how your meals went.
Mar 11, 2019, 7:04 pm
#35
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Tell you what. Why don't you buy the Michelin guide to Kyoto and Osaka? In there you'll see the list of all the Michelin-starred restaurants, with type of cuisine, price range, address, contact info, and some detail about the place. Then you can pick some that look interesting and start dialing for dollars. Report back here on how your meals went.
Mar 11, 2019, 7:05 pm
#36
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Top quality neta at Toyosu is going to cost the same wether you have zero stars, 1 star, or 3 stars. For example, the maguro served at the first counter at 1* Arai is going to usually be of higher quality than the maguro served at Jiro, Saito or Yoshitake. If they pay top money for the best maguro, of course they are going to pass these expenses on to the customers, regardless of Michelin stars.
Also, Michelin is not exactly all that important in Japan. Tabelog ratings and awards, for example, are significantly more important. The only thing you're guaranteed to see at a Michelin-starred shop in Tokyo is more foreign customers, it certainly doesn't mean it is any better than non-starred restaurants.
(PS: Jiro honten is close to ¥40,000 without drinks these days. I can't think of any 1* shop that charges that much.)
Only you can decide that for yourself. Some say that Yoshitake's otsumami dishes (especially the awabi with kimo sauce) are the best they've ever had. I'm sure it is worth it to them. YMMV.
Also, Michelin is not exactly all that important in Japan. Tabelog ratings and awards, for example, are significantly more important. The only thing you're guaranteed to see at a Michelin-starred shop in Tokyo is more foreign customers, it certainly doesn't mean it is any better than non-starred restaurants.
(PS: Jiro honten is close to ¥40,000 without drinks these days. I can't think of any 1* shop that charges that much.)
Only you can decide that for yourself. Some say that Yoshitake's otsumami dishes (especially the awabi with kimo sauce) are the best they've ever had. I'm sure it is worth it to them. YMMV.
I've also read that many travelers, especially Westerners, equate Michelin star = superb quality and > non-Michelin starred eateries...but it seems like the food world, especially in other countries, isn't all about Michelin stars and you certainly have great food without that.
It's almost like an opposite placebo effect. If you go into a place knowing it's Michelin starred, you almost trick yourself into believing it IS better than another place...which may not be starred but MAY ACTUALLY be "better"....
And after having thought about this...and having been in OP situation I've recently come to this conclusion:
Don't chase Michelin stars. Chase great food.
Mar 11, 2019, 8:27 pm
#37
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Tell you what. Why don't you buy the Michelin guide to Kyoto and Osaka? In there you'll see the list of all the Michelin-starred restaurants, with type of cuisine, price range, address, contact info, and some detail about the place. Then you can pick some that look interesting and start dialing for dollars. Report back here on how your meals went.
Mar 11, 2019, 8:32 pm
#39
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And one last question!
Is there any good value A5 Wagyu places in Osaka that the community would recommend (I don’t mind paying ¥10000 per person for this.
Is there any good value A5 Wagyu places in Osaka that the community would recommend (I don’t mind paying ¥10000 per person for this.
Mar 11, 2019, 10:57 pm
#40
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It seems that Kobe beef restaurants have exploded in the past couple of years in the area north of Sannomiya station, downtown Kobe. I suppose fueled by the sharp increase in tourism lately. My sense is that they're a bit cheaper than in the past, possibly because of competition. This web site reviews some that show prices in your range. There must be 50 or so restaurants selling Kobe beef within walking distance of the station.
https://savorjapan.com/contents/more...led-greatness/
https://savorjapan.com/contents/more...led-greatness/
Mar 12, 2019, 3:55 am
#41
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Mar 12, 2019, 11:22 am
#43
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It’s not the questions (because they aren’t questions, not really), it’s that you are starting up far too many threads on topics that you would be better served at a dedicated food site like chowhound.
Over the years it has been my privilege to come to know many of the regular contributors to this forum whose opinions you are trying to ransack like a casual commodity. They come for all kinds of reasons and (most) earn respect here - certainly mine. What they are not; “tick off the boxes” people looking to acquire some kind of kudos or bragging rights for eating at places just because they are aspirational and fashionable. Some will dip their toes into that kind of territory, sure, but the common denominator is that they give a poo about what they eat, even if it is a guilty pleasure, and they have an interest in the cuisine.
Whatever it is you are doing, I am not seeing any real interest beyond what is occasionally referred to here as “star fecking”, and doing it as economically as possible.
Open up, ask something real, don’t tell yourself it’s not about you. I’m certain you’ll get a much better response.
Over the years it has been my privilege to come to know many of the regular contributors to this forum whose opinions you are trying to ransack like a casual commodity. They come for all kinds of reasons and (most) earn respect here - certainly mine. What they are not; “tick off the boxes” people looking to acquire some kind of kudos or bragging rights for eating at places just because they are aspirational and fashionable. Some will dip their toes into that kind of territory, sure, but the common denominator is that they give a poo about what they eat, even if it is a guilty pleasure, and they have an interest in the cuisine.
Whatever it is you are doing, I am not seeing any real interest beyond what is occasionally referred to here as “star fecking”, and doing it as economically as possible.
Open up, ask something real, don’t tell yourself it’s not about you. I’m certain you’ll get a much better response.
Mar 13, 2019, 2:18 pm
#45
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Three threads regarding “best value” recommendations merged. OP, if you are unsure whether posting a new thread is appropriate please feel free to PM me and I will be happy to advise you.
Regards,
armagebedar
Japan forum moderator
Regards,
armagebedar
Japan forum moderator
