AlwaysAisle

CBS Sunday Morning news show had a story about a pizza maker in Tokyo. Used to be (20 - 30 years ago) pizza in Japan was like..., well let's say... , but just like anything else in Japan, one thing Japanese is good about it is to copy and make it perfect. Is it possible that now there can be pizza in Tokyo on the par with Italy? Talk among yourselves...

A Slice of Japan: Tokyo's Pizza Makers (from CBS news, website with video)

angra

I've had several of the new wave neapolitan pizza places in Tokyo. They are pretty good, but I would not rate them as likely to be competitive in Naples. Agreed that they are way better than a lot of places in the US but that is not a very high bar

Full disclosure, I have a bias toward simpleness and value. PST's inclusion of both a minimum drink order _and_ a cover charge for _lunch_ left a taste in my mouth that probably affected the pizza .

LapLap

Salvatore Cuomo has made a big impact on pizzas in Japan

https://japantoday.com/category/feat.../the-pizza-man

A member(s?) of his team won pizza competitions in Naples in 2006 and 2007. It was very big news at the time and permanently propelled the Salvatore Brand into my own awareness as a result.

More info about the 2006 victory by Makoto Onishi here (his first win was in 2003)
http://www.italymagazine.com/italy/c...a-making-prize

Similarly, the Ginza Espero won top prizes in Valencia for their paella. I’ve eaten excellent paella in Tokyo, better than many places in the Valencian region. Alas, the restaurant that made fantastic paella in Kamakura is no longer in business Used to be part of our romantic day trips there, am very sad we can’t share that experience with LapChild.

evergrn

I've never had gourmet pizzas anywhere, but I do think they do pizzas very well in Jpn. I've heard Americans say Jpn pizzas are no good. So I think it's a personal taste. But I like Pizza-la and some of their pizzas that Americans might consider weird. I've heard people say it's weird to put corn on pizzas, which I find odd because they're starting to put all kinds of different things on pizzas in America as well. I've had authentic brick-oven pizzas in Jpn, but I actually enjoy certain ones from Pizza-la more.

That said, the best pizza I've had was in US. I think US has high standards for pizzas. There are some bad places but there're also some amazing pizzas in US. I spent a few weeks in Italy visiting my Italian friend. She'd never been to US, but she told me pizzas in Italy would blow away anything I've had in Jpn or US. She took me to a lot of different places, but truth is none of the pizzas I had in Italy blew me away.

angra

Now I am very curious what places you tried in Italy I don't expect you have a record, but if you do, please list them!

Flatish bread baked with stuff on top of it is a nearly universal human food. IMO it's pointless to get religious/purist about pizza. Weird is in the eye of the beholder.

To me, the core exercise of pizza making is bread making. And, overall, Japan is very good at baking, so there is no reason that Japan should not turn out amazing pizza. I just haven't had any yet that struck me as upper half of naples, or top-tier in the US, yet.

evergrn

This was like 10 years ago, so I don't remember all the details or any specific place.
She first took me to this place at an expressway stop called Pizzico or Spizzico or something. She said it was a chain and not the best but popular amongst Italians nonetheless and would likely be better than most pizzas I'd had. I didn't think it was very good. We stayed in Tuscany the whole time. She took me to what she said was the best pizza place in her hometown. I remember thinking it was good but nothing special. Had pizza at other places including a busy place in either Livorno or Pisa. I also spent some time by myself down in Rome, Amalfi coast / Pompei area, but I don't remember food down there too well. I've spent more time on another trip up in northern Italy (Milan, Lugano, Genoa, etc), and I just remember being very impressed by gelato and focaccia but I don't recall having any memorable pizzas. It's possible I did not go to the right places.

LapLap

Thought I’d look at what Italian clients think of the pizza at Salvatore Cuomo. The Shinjuku branch has (unsurprisingly) the largest sample size on tripadvisor

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restau...ure_Kanto.html

Verdict is excellent from most of the Italian speaking contributors.

Had a few slices of different pizza-la “pizzas” at a reunion once. Am very glad I know better. Sure, bread with stuff on it evolved independently (and co-dependently) in many countries. There has been lots of criss-crossing of the Mediterranean over the past few thousand years and the countries in and bordering it share a lot of foods. In Alicante and elsewhere on the Eastern coast of Spain we have a range of “cocas”, our own locally evolved version. And a coca has as much similarity to a Neapolitan pizza (perhaps more) as the pizza-la offerings. Am glad I tried pizza-la, but as I have, I would never seek it out or actually request it again.

Pickles

I think the Japanese make excellent old-school Neapolitan pizza, there are fair number of restaurants in Japan that have the Vera Pizza Napoletana (VPN AVPN - Associazione Verace Pizza Napoletana) seal and it's pretty damn good, up there with some of the best in Italy. One of my favorites is Savoy in Azabu Juban (�ˇSAVOY�@PIZZA�ˇ). As compared to the US, not many places in the US do pizza "right" in this style, as one needs a proper wood-burning oven capable of 900 C temperatures and above. A few places in San Francisco, a few in New York, 1 (?) in Boston that I know of, but that's about it. I'm sure there are others, but I haven't been.

As for Pizza-La, I think I had that once when I was young and stupid, and after ordering it and (perhaps) eating it, I learned my lesson. Independently of the toppings, everything about that stuff is vile, not quite as bad as the Shakey's in Omotesando (long gone and not missed) but close.

basscadet75

I've never had decent Italian or New York style pizza in Japan. That said, I'm not really a snob when it comes to pizza *unless* a pizzeria is making an obvious attempt at doing a particular style - then I will judge it against the best I've had of that style. So if you're gonna do Neapolitan or Margherita, you'd best do it well. If you just want to do some unique Japanese style of pizza, fine. I will eat it and enjoy it for what it is, just like I do California pizza, or Chicago pizza, or whatever. But if you want to do a known style from somewhere else, you have to get it right.

The one thing the place at the OP's link has going for it is a 900 degree oven. So many pizzerias in *every* country don't get that basic prerequisite right; they try to cook pizza like this in a regular 500 degree gas oven. Doesn't work. So when I see someone with a 900 degree oven, that tells me they've done at least their basic homework, which makes it worth trying. Could be good. Might be a new place to try next time I'm there.

groovbusta

The OP raised the question of Neapolitan pizza and the guy in the CBS video wrote this interesting article about "Tokyo style" Neapolitan pizza in Eater last year https://www.eater.com/2017/2/21/1467...za-tokyo-guide. I honestly can't believe how big Tokyo style Neapolitan pizza has become now, although it's unfortunate the rest of the foodie/IG world has found out about our local secret.

I haven't had good NY style pizza in Tokyo yet, although a few places are trying to make a go of it. But when you talk about Neapolitan style pizza, Tamaki-san has built quite a reputation and following over the past 10 years before opening PST (now a second location across from Roppongi Midtown) a couple years ago. He's not the only pizzaiolo doing artisinal Neopolitan pizza in Tokyo, but there are only a few that are at his level. Most of the other casual Italian restaurants and/or delivery chains shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath.

For the foodies reading this, I would also recommend Bacar in Okinawa. I know those guys are friends with Tamaki-san and I think they were his senpai. One other note about PST... I would recommend the original location in Higashi-azabu (near Tokyo Tower) for now, as it seems the oven in his new Roppongi location hasn't quite been broken in yet. Or it might just be my overly sensitive taste buds.

angra

My experience has been that VPN doesn't correlate all that strongly with "good neapolitan pizza". Savoy is next on my list to try. I liked Seirinkan better than PST, but it's entirely possible that my inner eyerolling at their policies affected my impression.

groovbusta

Agree with your comment about the VPN designation. Savoy was/is one of the good ones, although I haven't been in ages since it's been overrun with tourists and lost it's local feel. I guess there's nothing wrong with the rest of the world getting a taste...

mjm

Good, very good, on a par with a lot of what is offered in NY is at Pizza Slice here in Tokyo. Pizza (NY style) is a big thing for me and this place does it very well. No Sicilian slices but hey, if you are going to other than L&B or DiFara's, you are taking second best. If you want a sit down pizza as part of a meal Napoli pizza then K recommend Da Ivo, but their are many great places.

angra

What I would really love to see in Tokyo (or anywhere else for that matter) is good thin-roman style pizza. I was a neapolitan hound for a long time, but in the 2010s several really decent neapolitan places appeared in the US, so it became less of a unicorn. I'm not holding my breath on this one.

Speaking of the actual main topic of this thread - has anyone here tried Da Michele in Tokyo? I suppose I should give it a try at some point.

This thread is great and has brought out several interesting references to specific places in Tokyo!

AlwaysAisle

Japanese pizza maker Hiroki Nishimoto won Olimpiadi Vera Pizza Napoletana 2019. Hiroki Nishimoto owns pizza shop called Pizzaria Hiro (website in Japanese only) in Itami, Osaka. Closest station is Itami station of Kankyu Itami Line.