AlwaysAisle

Japanese government and Narita Airport authority have been talking with local towns and local residents regarding third runway at Narita Airport. It is reported that local towns and residents have pretty much agreed to the plan of third runway at NRT.

Planned Third Runway

The plan will built third runway far south of current B Runway located at the side of Terminal 2 and Terminal 3 of the airport. New third runway will be a parallel runway to the existing B runway allows simultaneous operation. Also plan will extend current B Runway from 2500 m to 3500 m which will eliminate size and weight limit currently has on B Runway.

evergrn

Interesting news. But really odd place to put the 3rd runway. I thought all along the plan was to eventually put the 3rd runway diagnonally from near the "right" end of Runway A heading "upper-left" towards Runway B. Maybe that space is being used too much now (hangars, taxiway, etc). But such configuration would've given a crosswind landing option. Even if that's not that important anymore, the purpose of having multiple parallel runways is to not have to expand airport footprint while increasing capacity (ex: SEA). I wouldn't know any other airport with 3 parallel runways that are scattered so far from each other.

jrmyl

Are there any links to this with pictures of the proposed location? Since I operate out of there I am very interested in how long a taxi route this would be from Terminal 1 and the northern cargo area. Seems any time I am parking in the northern area I always get the B runway. Makes for extremely long taxi times and hot brakes.

I wish they would install a crosswind runway but as evergrn mentioned I don't think there is space there any longer.

msb0b

I, too, thought the third runway would be in the 3/21 heading and situated between Terminal 1 and the cargo terminals. There was a Yokobori unity hut built by the airport protestors but that was dismantled last year. There should be no obstacle turning the current taxiway into a runway.

Where can a third runway in the 16/34 direction heading can fit without massive land acquisition? I am not seeing it.

AlwaysAisle

Yes, this new third runway will be located far away form terminal buildings. Even today arriving at B runway, especially arriving at 34R and taxing to Terminal 1 area really take long time. Possible that this new third runway will be longer taxi.

Yes, there actually was a plan for third cross wind Runway C which was in original plan for Narita Airport and still can see part which was meant to be for cross wind Runway C.

What I read so far is that it is due with air space surrounding NRT. Airspace west of Narita is for Haneda airport. Also big portion of airspace west of Haneda belongs to the U.S. Air Force base Yokota. Then north of Narita is Hyakuri Air base for Japan Defense force now it is also operating as Ibaraki Airport for commercial flights.

Regarding bring up original cross wind Runway C, following points were made when studying new third runway for Narita:

• Due to improvement in aircraft performance, many aircraft can handle cross wind landing and take off. Need for cross wind runway is less compare with 40 - 50 years ago when Narita Airport was originally planned.
• Due to Hyakuri air space north of Narita, there really is no good available airspace when taking off to north or landing form north at originally planned cross wind Runway C.
• Originally planned cross wind Runway C intersects with current Runway A in front of Terminal 1, and also located in front of current Runway B in front of Terminal 2. Which makes operation of cross wind Runway C has to be coordinated with traffic at Runway A and Runway B.
• Ideal situation is for new third runway to operate independent of other two runways, no need to coordinate with other two runways at Narita

The key was this new third Runway C to be operated independent from other two runways.

Construction of new runway south of existing Runway A at Terminal 1 side was not good choice since it will get very close to Haneda air space.

When making true parallel runway to existing Runway B, then the new runway has to be made more than 740 m (2400 ft.) away from existing Runway B. If not the operation of new third Runway C has to be coordinated with operation of existing Runway B and will not able to use full capacity of new Runway C.

With operate new Runway C with full capacity without coordination of existing Runway B then the idea came about building new Runway C that far away. With this setting any aircraft doing go around on landing at existing Runway B can make turn away from new Runway C, where each runways will not affect operation of each other.

Seems to be the point was if they are going to make a new runway, then the new runway should able to operate in full capacity without coordination and restriction from other runways at Narita.

Today, aircraft arriving from North America to Haneda first have to make turn toward north at ocean to avoid Hyakuri and Narita airspace, making large circular path over north (almost looks like heading toward Sendai area) to come into the landing path to Haneda. Easily adding 30 - 40 minutes compare with flying straight into Haneda.

Addition to the new third runway, airport authority has come to agreement with local towns and residents to expand landing/takeoff time of Narita airport from current 6 a.m. - 11 p.m. to 5 a.m. - 12:30 midnight.

bocastephen

I'm not seeing the need for this - is traffic at Narita growing? UA and DL pretty much pulled almost all of their former intra-Asia service out of NRT and a lot of traffic has moved to Haneda with the time restrictions being lifted. What is the real benefit for adding another runway at an airport with declining traffic?

AlwaysAisle

Where are you getting this information? Is it based on the fact or is it based on your imagination? DL and UA has pulled out of intra-Asia routes and not making use of fifth freedom rights, that is truth. But you are simply assuming that since DL and UA has pulled out of intra-Asia flights out of NRT then passengers on intra-Asia flights out of NRT has declining? You think DL and UA alone determines traffic at NRT?

International passenger traffic at NRT on year 2017, comparing with same month a year ago:

Jan: 102%
Feb: 104%
March: 105%
April: 105%
May: 104%
June: 105%
July: 103%
Aug: 103%
Sept: 102%
Oct: 102%
Nov: 103%
Dec: 103%

Definitely NRT airport authority does not think passenger traffic at NRT is declining. Japanese government has lifting international traffic restriction at HND, that is true, but HND will remain as heavily slot controlled airport. No airlines will able to establish the flight to HND anytime they want simply because they want to.

Then the fact remains, Tokyo needs more than one airport. HND alone cannot handle entire domestic, international, and cargo air traffic demand for greater Tokyo area.

bocastephen

I am not suggesting that Tokyo only needs one airport, but with the loss of UA/DL intra-Asia traffic, and the growth of traffic at Haneda, I don't see traffic growth at Narita being sufficient to justify construction of another runway. I am not suggesting the airport could be closing anytime soon.

kevincrumbs

I believe that a lot of the growth at NRT has stemmed from the sharp increase in tourists from other East Asian countries, which goes hand-in-hand with the growth of LCC carriers serving NRT from overseas and also local Japanese LCCs who utilise NRT and not HND.

777Cat3b

And growth at NRT is hemmed in by lack of landing slots. With a new runway in place, that will open up more capacity. Not to mention the reduction in curfew hours.

And surprising as it may seem to some people...airlines, airports and governments have access to a lot of data that the average person does not. I'm always surprised on FT at how many people think they know so much more than the organisations involved based on them travelling on aircraft every now and then.

jib71

Unfortunately, there is no shortage of white elephant infrastructure in Japan to make people suspicious of government cost estimates, usage projections, and cost-benefit analyses.

777Cat3b

Comparing NRT expansion with Ibaraki, Kobe or Shizuoka is pretty tough though.

bocastephen

...and you would be surprised how many people on Flyertalk whose backgrounds you are not familiar with have access to much of the same data from various sources and have every right to disagree with the decisions of executives and bureaucrats who are wrong more often than right. None of this data is secret.

evergrn

+1.
This has been an ongoing bad habit with Japanese politics.

Why? I don't know the exact level of need for a 3rd runway at NRT. But people should have reasons to be skeptical of any government projections/proposals like that, and Kobe and Shizuoka are the exact reasons why.

I'm sure NRT could use another runway. But no matter how you slice it, the level of necessity for another runway in 2018 has got to be way less than it was back in 2000 when NRT had a single runway and HND had 1 less runway and minimal share of TYO's international service.

777Cat3b

Right back at you. Maybe I have some data you know nothing about. You have every right to disagree, but at the end of the day, the people involved may well have more experience and more data that you (or I) know about. So why assume they're wrong? You seem to be basing you argument on the loss of DL/UA fifth-freedom traffic. Hardly the whole picture. Maybe NRT have indications from other parties that they would increase their services to NRT if attractive slots were available. Who knows.