Hakone in a half day? Tough spot in my itinerary
Aug 2, 2017, 8:41 am
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boston, Jo'burg, HK
Programs: AA EXP, Hyatt Lifetime Diamond, CX Gold, Mrs. Pickles travels for free
Posts: 13,161
Aug 2, 2017, 10:44 am
#18
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Beantown! (BOS)
Programs: AA PtPro (2 MM); Hilton Diamond; Hertz President Cr; DL SkyMiles; UA MileagePlus
Posts: 3,437
Could someone please explain what I'm seeing?
05:06
begin TOKYO
JR Keihin-Tohoku/Negishi Line Local for OFUNA
05:40
05:45
transfer HIGASHI-KANAGAWA
through
JR Yokohama Line Local for HACHIOJI
¥8,210
05:54
06:00
transfer SHIN-YOKOHAMA
[119 Min]
through
SHINKANSEN HIKARI 493
Train timetable | Interval timetable
07:59
end KYOTO
[ Arrival track No.13 ]
begin TOKYO
JR Keihin-Tohoku/Negishi Line Local for OFUNA
05:40
05:45
transfer HIGASHI-KANAGAWA
through
JR Yokohama Line Local for HACHIOJI
¥8,210
05:54
06:00
transfer SHIN-YOKOHAMA
[119 Min]
through
SHINKANSEN HIKARI 493
Train timetable | Interval timetable
07:59
end KYOTO
[ Arrival track No.13 ]
Route 1:
Keihin Tohoku Line
Tokyo: 05:37
Shinagawa: 05:48
Nozomi No. 99
Shinagawa: 06:00
Kyoto: 08:02
Route 2:
Nozomi No. 1
Tokyo: 06:00
Kyoto: 08:08
Route 3:
Hikari No. 501
Tokyo: 06:26
Kyoto: 09:14
Aug 2, 2017, 11:26 am
#19
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: RDU
Posts: 1,473
That's one ferkakte routing. But it seems the Hikari 493 starts in Shin-Yokohama, so it's telling you how to get there from Tokyo to Shin-Yokohama. You can always wait a little longer and take Hikari 501 which passes through Shinagawa at 6:34 AM, arriving into Kyoto at 9:14 AM. Or you can just bag the stupid railpass and take the first Nozomi.
All shinkansen that originate in Tokyo will stop in Shinagawa.
All shinkansen that originate in Tokyo will stop in Shinagawa.
Aug 2, 2017, 11:30 am
#20
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Beantown! (BOS)
Programs: AA PtPro (2 MM); Hilton Diamond; Hertz President Cr; DL SkyMiles; UA MileagePlus
Posts: 3,437
I do not use Hyperdia, since I can read and write Japanese… 
I use the site directly from JR to look up train schedule for JR. Also as self proclaimed train geek, I have good idea of the schedule already so I look more specific on departure time and arrival time.
I use the site directly from JR to look up train schedule for JR. Also as self proclaimed train geek, I have good idea of the schedule already so I look more specific on departure time and arrival time.
Aug 2, 2017, 2:53 pm
#21
Join Date: Nov 2009
Programs: DL PM 1MM
Posts: 3,439
Thanks Pickles and AlwaysAisle, that would definitely work. Where / how are you seeing the Hikari 501 departing at 6:34 am? In the search link I posted, that doesn't appear in the result set. What am I doing wrong? I plugged in TOKYO and KYOTO, though I noticed there were other Tokyo origination choices.
Aug 2, 2017, 8:32 pm
#22
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Mabuhay Miles, Skypass, Eva Air, KrisFlyer
Posts: 180
Holy smokes! The Fushimi Inari shrine is tops on my list and I wouldn't have known to allocate 3 hours to "summit" and return. None of the guidebooks or web sites I've seen seem to mention anything like that. More like "go up the path to your heart's content" or something similar. If you could do it over, how far up / how long up would you hike?
I would block off 4 hours for this place atleast. I mean sure you can see the first 100+ tori gates and be done with it, I like to fully explore a place before saying done, and that includes a visit to the shops with my SO.
I'll be staying at the Ritz-Carlton Kyoto. That itself looks like an experience. We've never stayed at an RC before. Some say it's one of their best properties. Wife doesn't want to give that up or Kyoto myself; neither do I. The shrines and temples in Kyoto look phenomenal--and those things are more of interest to me than city sights and activities. Although I know Tokyo has some interesting shrines and temples, I doubt they're as dramatically situated.
There are lots of templates in the city you can just walk into, the big ones are the ones that take time because of location, size of the grounds, crowd size etc.
The plan for our second day in Kyoto (Thu 9/28) is to see what we can see in the morning, then take the 2:32pm Hikari back to Tokyo. It arrives around 5pm. Then to use an "After 6pm" discounted ticket to see Tokyo Disneyland. With a full day allotted for TokyoDisneysea (Fri 9/29); we'll be there for rope drop. We'll see as much of it as we like. If it doesn't impress, we may head back to Tokyo. Though we realize Mahaima's a bit out of the way.
We fly to Maui Sat 9/30, departing NRT around 7pm. Not sure how early we should arrive. But that may give us more Tokyo time if we bring our luggage and store in a locker. We travel light. Our luggage consists of two Rick Steves' convertible backpacks that fit in nearly all aircraft overhead compartments and two day packs.
Aug 2, 2017, 11:52 pm
#23
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SIN and wandering.
Posts: 1,549
Holy smokes! The Fushimi Inari shrine is tops on my list and I wouldn't have known to allocate 3 hours to "summit" and return. None of the guidebooks or web sites I've seen seem to mention anything like that. More like "go up the path to your heart's content" or something similar. If you could do it over, how far up / how long up would you hike?
At the summit is another shrine. If u don't mind skipping the shrine the top, u can just hike up to the lookout, and head back down.
I did the entire trail at dusk (by the time I reached the bottom the shrines and shops have shut). So you can do this trail either very early in the morning, or late in the afternoon. The further up u go, the quieter it is. If you want the photos with the torii gates in one straight line, that near the beginning of the trial, it's hard to miss (and u may have to wait for your turn for the photo opp).
Here's a detailed write up of the entire hike up which also states u need 3 hours to reach the top. http://www.insidekyoto.com/fushimi-inari-hike-kyoto
Aug 3, 2017, 12:21 am
#24
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tokyo
Programs: SPG LT Plat ANA Plat
Posts: 596
Yeah, give us your whole itinerary. What days you arrive/leave from Jpn, which nights you're staying in Tokyo and Kyoto, etc.
Odawara to Owakudani (via mountain train, cable car and ropeway) is 90~100min. If you're in a major rush and just want to ride the ropeway over the volcanic gorge and then do the volcano walk and hang out a bit at Owakudani, then you'll want to allow maybe 3.5 hours for Odawara back to Odawara. If you start adding in other things, such as a stop at an onsen, it will take longer obviously. Besides onsen, another thing you can do is to visit the Open Air Museum. I'm not into museums usually, but even I like that place and they have a foot onsen there.
There're tons of higaeri (day-use) onsens in Hakone, but you're really limiting choices by insisting on a private bath higaeri onsen. I'm sure there are some if you do a search. The only one that comes to mind is either the one at Fujiya Yumoto Hotel or to do the tea&room plan (rent a room for ~4hrs) at the original Fujiya (Miyanoshita) Hotel where the hot water into the room bath is real onsen. The original Fujiya Hotel, with their classy public area and nice garden, is a nice place to stop at by the way.
Whether/not you want to do plan A or plan B depends entirely on the train schedule and the rest of your itinerary. Some Hikari's stop in Odawara, but most don't. Hikari would be ideal, but otherwise it'd be the extremely slow Kodama or having to transfer once from Nozomi/Hikari to Kodama en route. The 10.32am Hikari out of Kyoto does stop at Odawara. If you do that, then you could probably do Owakudani+onsen on your Hakone swing and still make it into Tokyo around 8pm. But then one thing to worry about is luggage. Hope you don't have a big suitcase on you, because there's no guarantee a large locker is available at Odawara Sta.
Plan C might work out the best, depending on the rest of your itinerary. But then you'll have to change your hotel. Hilton Tokyo Bay is in about the most inconvenient location for doing this. If you stayed in Shinagawa, then you could leave the hotel before 8am, trek to Owakudani, spend ~1hr there, do onsen and be back at the hotel by 3pm. In fact, I've done similar before with my father-in-law on the day of his departure.
Odawara to Owakudani (via mountain train, cable car and ropeway) is 90~100min. If you're in a major rush and just want to ride the ropeway over the volcanic gorge and then do the volcano walk and hang out a bit at Owakudani, then you'll want to allow maybe 3.5 hours for Odawara back to Odawara. If you start adding in other things, such as a stop at an onsen, it will take longer obviously. Besides onsen, another thing you can do is to visit the Open Air Museum. I'm not into museums usually, but even I like that place and they have a foot onsen there.
There're tons of higaeri (day-use) onsens in Hakone, but you're really limiting choices by insisting on a private bath higaeri onsen. I'm sure there are some if you do a search. The only one that comes to mind is either the one at Fujiya Yumoto Hotel or to do the tea&room plan (rent a room for ~4hrs) at the original Fujiya (Miyanoshita) Hotel where the hot water into the room bath is real onsen. The original Fujiya Hotel, with their classy public area and nice garden, is a nice place to stop at by the way.
Whether/not you want to do plan A or plan B depends entirely on the train schedule and the rest of your itinerary. Some Hikari's stop in Odawara, but most don't. Hikari would be ideal, but otherwise it'd be the extremely slow Kodama or having to transfer once from Nozomi/Hikari to Kodama en route. The 10.32am Hikari out of Kyoto does stop at Odawara. If you do that, then you could probably do Owakudani+onsen on your Hakone swing and still make it into Tokyo around 8pm. But then one thing to worry about is luggage. Hope you don't have a big suitcase on you, because there's no guarantee a large locker is available at Odawara Sta.
Plan C might work out the best, depending on the rest of your itinerary. But then you'll have to change your hotel. Hilton Tokyo Bay is in about the most inconvenient location for doing this. If you stayed in Shinagawa, then you could leave the hotel before 8am, trek to Owakudani, spend ~1hr there, do onsen and be back at the hotel by 3pm. In fact, I've done similar before with my father-in-law on the day of his departure.
Aug 3, 2017, 12:43 am
#25
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Hilton, Hyatt House, Del Taco
Posts: 5,378
Yup. I've done pretty much exactly that. Century Hyatt (Shinjuku) to Hakone via Romance Car and back, doing Open Air Museum, Owakudani, train-cablecar-ropeway. Could be back at the hotel in 8hrs (less if not doing Open Air Museum).
Aug 3, 2017, 8:23 am
#26
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: RDU
Posts: 1,473
"What am I doing wrong?" Be sure to un-check the Nozomi option and then the Hikari 501 shows up right away. The Hyperdia search is discarding the Hikari option because there are so many faster options and only the top 5 (or 10) results are displayed. But if you exclude Nozomi, then you'll see it.
@AlwaysAisle re: your Japanese language ability, color me jealous. :-)
@SQ319, thanks for sharing your experience and great link on the Fushimi-Inari shrine walk!
@kzap, thanks for elaborating on your shrine experience. Also, thanks for the suggested itinerary tweak of doing TDL after TDS on the same day to extend our time in Kyoto. Running that one by my wife for sure. Will also remember to reach out to the RC concierge team.
Thanks also to anyone or any good point(s) I've not acknowledged. Good to see ongoing Hakone discussion. I'm confident I will retain my Kyoto overnight and see what I can.
Speaking of insidekyoto.com, is the author irresponsible in suggesting the following one day itinerary for Kyoto? I thought it might be interesting to pare it down to make it less rushed:
http://www.insidekyoto.com/must-see-...-day-itinerary
In the author's own words, he says of his one day Kyoto itinerary:
"If you complete the Must See Kyoto Temples itinerary in one day, I wish you a hearty otsukare-same (job well done)! I sincerely hope that next time you come to Kyoto, you can slow down a bit and see some of the sights on one of my Off-the-Beaten-Track Kyoto itineraries."
and"It is indeed possible to do the preceding itinerary in one day, especially if you are reasonably fit and are willing to take taxis where I have indicated. But be aware that it will be one long, rushed and tiring day. However, if you have two days in the city and can do the itinerary over those two days, then this would be a fantastic itinerary for those who want to check off all the must see temples in Kyoto."
Not giving up my overnight to Kyoto, but looking to optimize my stay; realizing the time I've allocated isn't ideal. But it is what it is and I'm going to enjoy it. :-)
Last edited by moretimeoffguy; Aug 4, 2017 at 10:48 am Reason: reducing verbosity
Sep 22, 2017, 11:11 am
#27
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: RDU
Posts: 1,473
Cancelling Kyoto due to rain forecast
Sadly, we're very likely cancelling our overnight to Kyoto this for coming Wed night due to a forecast of rain for both Wed 9/27 and Thu 9/28. This means another night in Tokyo. Perhaps we could sub-out Kyoto with a half-day trip to Kamakura. Or does this position us better for a day trip to Hakone? Don't have time to research lodging and availability in Hakone, so we just booked another points night in Tokyo "next to" our other hotel near Shinigawa Station.