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Ski-in/out resort

Ski-in/out resort

Old Feb 13, 2018, 8:47 pm
  #61  
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@shuigao

That's awesome! I hope you're glad with your decision to check out Zao. Seems like the volcano cooled down? Hope you're enjoying the onsen, as well.
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Old Feb 19, 2018, 7:18 pm
  #62  
 
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Originally Posted by evergrn
I've been there, but it was so long ago that I can't really help you much with any up-to-date firsthand info. I just remember the mountain being massive, very cold; great onsen.
Originally Posted by evergrn
That's awesome! I hope you're glad with your decision to check out Zao. Seems like the volcano cooled down? Hope you're enjoying the onsen, as well.
Thouroughly enjoyed myself at Zao, thanks for the "vote of confidence" you gave it


Note1: I got lucky with 42cm on the 2days that I ski'ied (and 72cm of snowfall the 2 days before).
Note2: I'm probably an early/middle-intermediate at best, so I obviously don't know anything about the off-piste or expert terrain.

Pros:
- If, as a good tourist, you go on the weekdays, there are literally no queues for any of the lifts, so your ski time is limited only by the strength of your thighs.
- There's a good variety of courses and terrain that can keep an intermediate / (or even strong-beginner) occupied for easily 3 full days. There's a nice mix of wide, groomed slopes, narrow ones that snake down the side of the mountain, and scenic cruising runs (particularly the one among the Juhyo).
- Lift infrastructure isn't as bad as some other review sites make it seem. Sure, the gondolas are a little slow, and the 2-seater lifts have no safety bars, but at no time did I fear for my life or anything like that. Similarly, ski rental shops are widely available and are well stocked with decent condition gear.
- Skiing was great!
- Public onsens / baths around town were great (logistics of walking there in the freezing cold are a little tricky though).

Cons:
- Zao (and I guess all of Japan?) has a Green-Red-Black classification system, i.e. "Green" = European Green + Blue. So for beginners it's a little difficult to know which greens are 'early beginner' slopes and which ones are 'strong beginner' ones.
- Signage is a little lacking in some spots. Once I went down an easy green slope which ended with a fork, both of which were steep ungroomed blacks (I took off my ski's and walked back up the slope). On Day2 I was on a cruising green run which suddenly, with no warning, transitioned to a narrow, ungroomed, mogul section. Very weird.
- Although it's a single combined lift ticket, the mountain is run by 3 separate lift companies with 3 separate base areas, and very little effort made to link those 3 areas together properly. So traveling from Uwodanai (the North-most base area) to the Juhyo (snow monsters) course requires you to literally ski a couple of hundred meters on flat terrain, plus crab walk an upward slope to some of the lifts.
- Group lessons are available only in Japanese, and despite going on a weekday, both Zao Heim Ski School and Zao Ski School had no english-speaking instructors available.
- I thought Nozawa Onsen was quiet at night, but Zao takes it to another level. As far as I can tell, the entire village has 1 konbini, a handful of restaurants, and no bars. Also, ski-in/ski-out properties are FAR from town. If you choose to stay closer to town, and have your own ski's, it's a 300+m uphill walk to the lifts, which sucks (if you rent you can store your ski's overnight at the rental shop of course).

Oddly I listed more cons than pros, but really, the mountain more than makes up for them. Would totally consider a return trip in the next season(s).
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Old Feb 19, 2018, 11:58 pm
  #63  
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Thanks a lot for reporting back. I enjoyed watching your clip. I'm really glad you had fun despite all the shortcomings of the resort. Didn't know that the resort was 3 different areas run by different companies. It's a shame they can't make things more seamless.
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Old Feb 20, 2018, 6:06 pm
  #64  
 
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Originally Posted by evergrn
Didn't know that the resort was 3 different areas run by different companies. It's a shame they can't make things more seamless.
Oops, my bad, it's a little worse than that. From powderhounds:

Lifts
Zao Japan has a huge number of lifts considering the size of the resort. The lifts are owned by nine different lift companies who generate revenue based on how many times you ride their particular lifts. They want you to stay on their lifts so negligible planning has gone into the integration of the areas. Commonly you have to travel uphill to transit between zones. Eat all the chocolate macadamias you desire because you’ll burn off plenty of calories skating, poling and walking, especially if there is fresh powder!

Ski Zao Japan - for the Beginner
Beginners should keep a close eye on the trail map because the signposting is not always obvious as to whether you’re about to go down a green, red or black run!
The bolded parts certainly echo my experiences accurately
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Old Feb 20, 2018, 8:01 pm
  #65  
 
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Originally Posted by shuigao
Thouroughly enjoyed myself at Zao,
Thanks for the reports and video.
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Old Feb 21, 2018, 5:45 pm
  #66  
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Originally Posted by shuigao
The bolded parts certainly echo my experiences accurately
That sounds awful. I don't remember any of that, but then again it was a long time ago that I went to Zao.
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Old Feb 26, 2018, 2:44 am
  #67  
 
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OK, one last video update from me which I think might be more interesting to readers of this thread (focuses entirely on the skiing).

I hope I'm not breaking any FT rules or anything, if it helps none of my videos are monetized by me (some are monetized by owners of the audio tracks that I use though).

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Old Mar 27, 2018, 1:39 am
  #68  
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Kiroro

Enjoyed Kiroro a lot. I think it's a fantastic mountain for beginners. There is a long green run along Nagamine #1 Express and along Yoichi #1 Express, respectively. There's another wide shorter green run that descends down the other way from the top of Yoichi #1 Express. Those three, plus a lower-intermediate run along Yoichi #1 , should together keep a beginner entertained for a couple of days.

For intermediate, there's a lot of options as long as the upper halves of the mountains (Nagamine and Asari) are open. There's a couple of fantastic runs from the top of Nagamine that I kept doing over and over. The view from up there is unbelievable on a clear day like when I was there. From the top of Asari, there is a long intermediate run that's fun during the first half. But the last half is basically bunny slope grade and you have no choice but to ski all the way to the bottom on that run. In fact, the problem with Kiroro is that a lot of runs eventually end up on the left side of the lower half of the mountain which is quite flat. The other issue is that, when the top portions are closed (as was the case the week before we went), I don't think it really has much to offer for anyone besides beginners.
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Old Mar 27, 2018, 1:44 am
  #69  
 
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Great summary. Only thing is the BC for those interested can be fun and not too hard to access, but overall probably better places to base from if that's your thing.
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Old Mar 27, 2018, 1:55 am
  #70  
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Originally Posted by Cynicor
Great summary. Only thing is the BC for those interested can be fun and not too hard to access, but overall probably better places to base from if that's your thing.
BC = backcountry?
If so, yes Kiroro really seems to promote off-piste skiing/boarding. They had brochures and signs about it in different places.
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Old Mar 27, 2018, 3:17 am
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Yep. They do promote it, I think they charge some sort of fee but the nearby stuff isn't too bad for those new to it.
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Old Jun 2, 2018, 5:35 pm
  #72  
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Sorry to ask the same question over and over... but I'm bumping this to see if anyone's ever skiied Shizukuishi and, if so, how he/she liked it.

We need legitimate ski-in/ski-out at an ideally upscale hotel with real onsen this Dec.
So many places are eliminated due to:
- substandard hotel (eg, Prince Naeba)
- too expensive (Karuizawa Prince; Green Plaza Hakuba; just about everywhere in Hokkaido for late Dec)
- possibility of not enough snow in late Dec (eg, Niigata and Fukushima resorts)
- no real onsen (eg, Prince Shiga Kogen)

Shizukuishi is really the only one that comes close to meeting our criteria and budget at this point.
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Old Jun 10, 2018, 1:52 pm
  #73  
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Originally Posted by gnaget
Check out Hakuba Cortina. Hilarious bubble era relic of hotel at the base.
Hakuba Cortina Ski Resort | Cortina Japan Review

Adults can maybe drive over to Happo One for one day of skiing, which is 30 min away.

I went there once when they supposedly got 50 cm of snow while Happo got 20 or 30. However, it was like cement, so can't call it powder skiing.
I'm considering this place for this Dec, especially now that my family is advanced beginner (I've been intermediate forever).
A nice, clean ski-in/out hotel is still a must. So it'd have to be Cortina rather than Happo One.
Cortina seems small, but I understand that it adjoins Hakuba Norikura resort for which you can buy a combined lift pass. Do you remember this? With those two areas combined, it becomes a pretty big terrain. How would you regard this place in terms of rental quality and crowd/queues and for beginner/intermediate skiers?

Btw, the hotel at Cortina is 175,000yen for 3 nights, 4ppl, breakf & dinner included. Lift passes are not included, and kids don't ski free.
On the other hand, Shizukuishi is <100,000yen for the equivalent package. And kids ski free. And easier to get to.

The hotel seems to be better at Cortina. I'm reading reviews on Shizukuishi that are mixed, but the lift layout doesn't look great. But, when it's all said and done, Cortina will end up costing almost 100,000yen more than Shizukuishi. This place is so expensive. It'd be a major bummer if I showed up at Cortina, having paid that kind of money, to find that the snow is "cement" as you'd experienced. I've run into quite a few days of packed ice condition at Whistler (truly not enjoyable), but so far I don't think I've yet to encounter packed ice slopes in Jpn.

Another place we're considering is Tomamu, but it will take good part of a day just to get there from Tokyo. (Forget Tomamu... turns out what I thought was the grand total was actually per-person!)

Last edited by evergrn; Jun 11, 2018 at 12:39 am Reason: tomamu
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Old Sep 12, 2018, 10:15 pm
  #74  
 
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Wow has it already (almost) been a year?

Planning for a late-Jan/early-Feb 2019 trip (4 nights). Hokkaido waaaaaaaay above my budget so looks like it'll be Honshu again.
- Sheraton Kiroro is us$450/night (for two)
- Westin Rusutsu us$548
- Hilton Niseko Village us$547

a. Thinking of Naeba at the moment even if the hotel might be a bit crap (us$212/night), mountain seems decently sized + we can hop over the dragondola to Kagura. They seem to have english ski school too which is a plus.
b. For Hakuba Cortina that you guys suggested, are you talking about the 'Hotel Green Plaza Hakuba' (us$179/night)? Not sure if the mountain's big enough for 3 full days of advanced beginner / intermediate, even combined with norikura.
C. Have also half a mind to go back to Nozawa Onsen again cos it's familiar, but having been spoiled by ski in ski out places I'm not sure if I can go back to boarding shuttle busses.....

Last edited by shuigao; Sep 12, 2018 at 10:36 pm
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Old Sep 13, 2018, 12:06 am
  #75  
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Originally Posted by shuigao
Wow has it already (almost) been a year?

Planning for a late-Jan/early-Feb 2019 trip (4 nights). Hokkaido waaaaaaaay above my budget so looks like it'll be Honshu again.
- Sheraton Kiroro is us$450/night (for two)
- Westin Rusutsu us$548
- Hilton Niseko Village us$547

a. Thinking of Naeba at the moment even if the hotel might be a bit crap (us$212/night), mountain seems decently sized + we can hop over the dragondola to Kagura. They seem to have english ski school too which is a plus.
b. For Hakuba Cortina that you guys suggested, are you talking about the 'Hotel Green Plaza Hakuba' (us$179/night)? Not sure if the mountain's big enough for 3 full days of advanced beginner / intermediate, even combined with norikura.
I've never skiied Cortina or stayed at Green Plaza Hakuba. But when I'm not working or doing family stuff, only thing I do is research ski resorts. So let me comment on Cortina. We're a family of beginners and intermediate. So my criteria are much like yours. I don't have very high expectation, but I want at least 3 intermediate runs and 2 beginner runs of >700metres each. At Cortina/Norikura, you get 4 beginner and 3 intermediate trails of acceptable lengths for total of 8 & 6. I'm not sure how seamless it is to go from one resort to another. From everything I've read, going between the two resorts is easy enough. But once you get over into Norikura, it seems like Norikura's layout is such that it seems like you have to ride different lifts multiple times to get from one end of the resort to another. Based on reviews I've read, Hakuba Green Plaza and its onsen are quite decent, better than Green Plazas at Joetsu Kokusai or Oku-Karuizawa.

At Niseko Hilton, prices drop progressively the later you go in the season.
There's plenty of snow usually at Niseko and Kiroro all through March. Can you go in March?
In early March, Hilton Niseko's lowest refundable rate will be ~$300/night for 2.

At Kiroro, did you check out Tribute? Although it's not ski-in/out, there's frequent shuttle to the slopes. Plus you have the pool, bigger onsen and more food options at the Tribute than at Sheraton.

I've never skiied Naeba, but I know the Prince there is mediocre as you say. If lodging and onsen are important to you (they are to me, esp lodging), then I would scratch Naeba off the list.

We're going to either Rusutsu or Niseko in spring. I'd really love to head to Rusutsu, but the Westin there is so expensive.

For this winter, I'm sort of torn between NASPA, Hakuba Cortina and Kiroro.
I've skiied NASPA and Kiroro, not yet Hakura Cortina.
One thing all those places have in common are what's important to me... decent hotel with decent onsen.
NASPA's really limited. But they pack a punch considering how small the mountain is. Unlike most Honshu resorts with weird lift layouts and lack of high-speed lifts, NASPA has the high-speed quads placed strategically and they have this one run that I never got tired of doing.

If you like decent terrain, nice ski-in/out hotel and you're considering Honshu, you should also look into Ski Jam, Akakura, Tangram Madarao, Aomori Spring.
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