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-   -   Bicycles on sidewalks in Tokyo (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan/1707843-bicycles-sidewalks-tokyo.html)

hailstorm Sep 6, 2015 5:32 pm


Originally Posted by armagebedar (Post 25385898)
The last one is sufficiently vague that riding one's bicycle on the sidewalk is de facto tolerated. I wish this would change, but sadly unless a bicycle hits a group of schoolchildren and someone dies as a result I doubt anything will happen.

Or until bicycle lanes are implented on all roads.

I will gladly stop riding my bicycle on the sidewalk in certain situations when I no longer have to fear being mowed down by impatient motorcycle riders or incompetent elderly gentsuki riders.

mkjr Sep 6, 2015 5:47 pm


Originally Posted by hailstorm (Post 25385962)
Or until bicycle lanes are implented on all roads.

I will gladly stop riding my bicycle on the sidewalk in certain situations when I no longer have to fear being mowed down by impatient motorcycle riders or incompetent elderly gentsuki riders.

Yes. Love how you put the safety of pedestrians at risk to prevent your own harm. Perhaps you should walk your bike. I almost punched out two people on bikes on sidewalks here in yyz today. As I yelled at the jerk off, he managed to wipe out into the scaffolding on the street...which was why I yelled at the jerk off since ridding a bike on a sidewalk is illegal but when there is no room is dangerous and negligent.

evergrn Sep 6, 2015 8:09 pm


Originally Posted by mkjr (Post 25386005)
Yes. Love how you put the safety of pedestrians at risk to prevent your own harm. Perhaps you should walk your bike. I almost punched out two people on bikes on sidewalks here in yyz today. As I yelled at the jerk off, he managed to wipe out into the scaffolding on the street...which was why I yelled at the jerk off since ridding a bike on a sidewalk is illegal but when there is no room is dangerous and negligent.

easy there:eek:
Sometimes circumstances dictate that we end up doing things we know we probably shouldn't do... happens to all of us.

hailstorm Sep 6, 2015 8:23 pm


Originally Posted by mkjr (Post 25386005)
Yes. Love how you put the safety of pedestrians at risk to prevent your own harm. Perhaps you should walk your bike.

The actions are generally done in front of a Koban, sometimes with a police officer standing out front. I trust that he is a better judge of what is legal and appropriate...although, as you admit to screaming at and nearly punching out people, perhaps you are an expert on menaces to society.

basscadet75 Sep 6, 2015 10:05 pm


Originally Posted by hailstorm (Post 25385962)
I will gladly stop riding my bicycle on the sidewalk in certain situations when I no longer have to fear being mowed down by impatient motorcycle riders or incompetent elderly gentsuki riders.

That's how it's been in New York forever but bike riders still had to ride on the roads, even before bike lanes existed. Riding a machine made of metal is a privilege, not a right, and you have to ride it where it belongs - with other machines on wheels. If you ride a bike on the sidewalk in NYC, you *will* get a ticket. I know people who have gotten tickets for riding less than half a block, after either entering the sidewalk to get to their building or the opposite.

I know that bike riding on sidewalks in Japanese cities is common and is rarely dealt with by the police. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be. Not everything in Japan is right. You just shouldn't have to be looking over your shoulder constantly for oncoming bikes when walking on the sidewalk... which is what sidewalks are intended for after all.

acregal Sep 6, 2015 11:14 pm


Originally Posted by hailstorm (Post 25385962)
Or until bicycle lanes are implented on all roads.

I will gladly stop riding my bicycle on the sidewalk in certain situations when I no longer have to fear being mowed down by impatient motorcycle riders or incompetent elderly gentsuki riders.

I don't fear the motorcycle or gentsuki people - I fear incompetent drivers. For example, I routinely see cars turn without looking.

stut Sep 6, 2015 11:16 pm

Given the number of bikes, and width of the roads and pavements in larger Japanese cities, I am surprised at the lack of cycling provision. Copenhagen style split level bike lanes (higher than the road, lower than the pavement) would work wonders.

I noticed a number of pavements in Kyoto were officially designated as shared use, with recommended cycle routes near the kerb - but the definition still was unclear.

hailstorm Sep 7, 2015 1:23 am


Originally Posted by basscadet75 (Post 25386678)
That's how it's been in New York forever but bike riders still had to ride on the roads, even before bike lanes existed. Riding a machine made of metal is a privilege, not a right, and you have to ride it where it belongs - with other machines on wheels. If you ride a bike on the sidewalk in NYC, you *will* get a ticket. I know people who have gotten tickets for riding less than half a block, after either entering the sidewalk to get to their building or the opposite.

The state of New York allows Segways on sidewalks in cities with population under a million. So you can ride "a machine made of metal" right down the sidewalks of downtown Buffalo and Staten Island.

http://www.ehow.com/list_6821688_man...gway-laws.html

armagebedar Sep 7, 2015 1:28 am

More bicycle paths like this would be great: http://takatsukikotsu.blog16.fc2.com...entry-271.html

stut Sep 7, 2015 2:26 am

Yeah, that kind of thing works well. If there's a culture of riding on pavements, clear segregation does help. Although maybe this is an excuse to post my favourite cycle path (one I love riding down):

https://petergoffin.files.wordpress....ngen.jpg?w=687

Have to say though, as an urban cyclist in a very aggressive environment most of the time (London), riding on the pavement is something that works really badly for cyclists. Lazy urban planners here like to get their 'target miles of sustainable transport' by designating pavements and footpaths as 'shared use', and you find yourself, particularly in smaller towns, being diverted on to the pavement. It's lose-lose - pedestrians don't like it, cyclists don't like it (it slows you right down, and loses you priority at every junction), and motorists hate it when cyclists use the road "when there's a perfectly good cycle path". So a more user-friendly way to ride, where there's already a huge popularity of cycling, will solve so many problems.

jib71 Sep 7, 2015 4:02 am


Originally Posted by stut (Post 25387213)
Have to say though, as an urban cyclist in a very aggressive environment most of the time (London), riding on the pavement is something that works really badly for cyclists.

London has such a different cycling culture.

I think it would be pretty cool if London could take a leaf out of Japan's book and have a wide population of very un-serious cyclists using cheap, lightweight, mamacharis to toddle down to the shops, or to school, or to a bicycle rack near a tube station to be picked up again after the evening commute. (And perhaps this seems impossible at many stations - but I'm thinking of my old stomping ground where a disused surface platform has sat doing nothing for several decades. Seems it would be ideal as a bike shed).

And perhaps there's something that Tokyo could learn from London's emerging cycling culture. What might that be? Respect for pedestrians and other road users? I'm not seeing it actually.

stut Sep 7, 2015 4:14 am


Originally Posted by jib71 (Post 25387408)
London has such a different cycling culture.

I think it would be pretty cool if London could take a leaf out of Japan's book and have a wide population of very un-serious cyclists using cheap, lightweight, mamacharis to toddle down to the shops, or to school, or to a bicycle rack near a tube station to be picked up again after the evening commute.

And perhaps there's something that Tokyo could learn from London's emerging cycling culture. What might that be? Respect for pedestrians and other road users? I'm not seeing it actually.

The un-serious cyclists are growing in numbers in London now, though - I am one of them, cycling in my office clothes on a great big bike I brought back from Amsterdam, between the station and the office. I tend to potter down the back roads rather than speed down the bus lanes and weave through the traffic queues. And there's some serious infrastructure going in to support this type of cycling, at last.

But the mutual respect has some way to go. I've been attacked (driven at, blocked off and had someone jump out the car) 3 times in the last 6 months for having the temerity to, well, be on the road. And I'm a big lad. (And I see plenty cyclist/pedestrian clashes with faults on both sides, too...)

I do enjoy the laid-back cycling culture in Japan a great deal (I've only done it in quieter areas). I'd love to see our big cities lean more this way.

However, I also cycle in Copenhagen on a regular basis, and that's utter bliss. The infrastructure capitalises on wide roads and the volume of cyclists, and supports people who want to go to work at a fair clip, and those who want to go barely faster than walking pace in a Christianiacykel with three kids in. It's a really simple concept how it works there, and it just strikes me that it's the kind of infrastructure that could really support what I've seen in Japanese cities.

However... It's never easy for a local authority to justify taking road space away from motor vehicles - even if the impact of doing so will actually decrease congestion.

jib71 Sep 7, 2015 4:18 am

Deleted - Off topic

Mickidon Sep 7, 2015 5:56 am

OP here...just spent a frustrating day trying to enjoy walking around Osaka. I was absolutely aghast at the sheer number of bicycles on Midosuji, despite a (painted) line on the road and no bicycle signs on the sidewalk. Because this is a wide pavement, some of these bicycles picked up some serious speed. It is only a matter of time before a tragedy occurs, if it hasn't already. And, to add to the absurdity, their counterparts on bicycles were snaking through the throngs in Dotonbori, endangering children and being general nuisances.

Pedestrians are the most vulnerable of the transport groups, so priority should always go to protecting them. I resent that what should be a pleasant walk creates stress and risk because selfish riders choose flout rules as it suits them, for some rationalized reason or other. Choosing which rules are worth following seems like a slippery slope. Shame on the police for allowing what looks like a free for all to have become the norm.

nishimark Sep 7, 2015 7:06 am


Originally Posted by Mickidon (Post 25387692)
OP here...just spent a frustrating day trying to enjoy walking around Osaka. I was absolutely aghast at the sheer number of bicycles on Midosuji, despite a (painted) line on the road and no bicycle signs on the sidewalk. Because this is a wide pavement, some of these bicycles picked up some serious speed. It is only a matter of time before a tragedy occurs, if it hasn't already. And, to add to the absurdity, their counterparts on bicycles were snaking through the throngs in Dotonbori, endangering children and being general nuisances.

Pedestrians are the most vulnerable of the transport groups, so priority should always go to protecting them. I resent that what should be a pleasant walk creates stress and risk because selfish riders choose flout rules as it suits them, for some rationalized reason or other. Choosing which rules are worth following seems like a slippery slope. Shame on the police for allowing what looks like a free for all to have become the norm.

It's Osaka. Notorious for this and even the locals joke about it. I'd suggest that you do your best to cope rather than get stressed out.


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