Haneda to Kyoto: train or 'plane?
 

As the thread title asks: we will arrive at Haneda just after 7am and plan to travel to Kyoto. Given that we'll be tired following a 12 hour flight (preceded by a domestic connection) and will have checked baggage, might it be easier to fly to Itami then take the limo. bus to Kyoto, than to get into Tokyo for the Shinkansen?
The HND-ITM flights would be paid for with Avios, so no real cost there, and we plan to return to Tokyo on the Shinkansen (hopefully sending our luggage ahead) so we will still experience this.
Ant thoughts or experiences of this?

Thanks

I decided to do the exact same thing for my trip next month. It just seemed easier as we'll already be at the airport to use Avios and $2 tax for the flight. I'd say go for it because you'll still get the experience of the Shinkansen on the return. Plus you'll save a few hundred for the journey with Avios over train tickets.

Kyoto has no airport of its own, so there's really no advantage in flying.

It's 11 minutes by Keikyu train to Shinagawa, where you can hop aboard a westbound Shinkansen. If you are buying individual tickets, any Nozomi (takes a little over two hours to central Kyoto) will do. If you are on a JR Pass, you have to take a Hikari, but even then, it's only about 30 minutes more. (The Kodama stops at the mid-sized cities like Odawara and Hamamatsu and may not run as far as Kyoto, so avoid that.)

If you have a lot of luggage (not recommended for traveling in Japan), take a carry-on with the necessities for overnight and have a luggage forwarding service ship your bags to your Kyoto hotel. They WILL arrive the next day. All Japanese hotels, from the five-star palaces to the tiniest little business hotel, deal with shipped bags all the time and have no trouble holding them for you.

I almost always recommend the shinkansen over domestic flights but in this case might go the other way. This assumes that you will not be doing any other long-distance train travel during your stay so will not have a JR Rail Pass. If you WILL have a Rail Pass, I'd still go with the train.

Assuming no Rail Pass, the shinkansen to Kyoto would add significant cost over using Avios - or any other points/miles - to purchase the flight. Since you will already be at the airport, I think the convenience of flying from HND to ITM outweighs the benefits of the train. As mentioned above, ITM is not in or near Kyoto so you will still be taking a limo-bus to Kyoto Station.

Also as mentioned above, in Japan luggage can be a concern. If you intend to take much luggage, the flight option also has a benefit. You would have to handle it from Arrivals to Domestic Departures at HND but it will be checked on to ITM. The limo-bus from ITM to Kyoto will be far better equipped to handle your bags than the shinkansen, which has limited bag space.

For the trip from Kyoto to Tokyo, I agree with the above suggestion to ask your hotel to have bags shipped ahead a day in advance to your next hotel via the excellent "takkyubin" forwarding service, keeping what you need for your last day/night in Kyoto in a small overnight bag. That way you don't have to wrangle baggage through the train station and onto the train, which has no checked bag service.

For traveling in Japan, the minimum amount of luggage one can get by with is always a good idea.

Is the arrival on a weekday or weekend? If weekday, you will be in the middle of morning rush hour. It would be wise to avoid travelling on trains at this time unless you really really really want the "experience".

Having arrived at HND at 7:30am, been on the train at 8:15 to Shinagawa and taken the Nozomi to Kyoto only a few months ago, the rush hour effect was negligible on this route. I would always take the shinkansen on this route, you are dropped off in central Kyoto rather than ITM

I've basically done this, but NRT-ITM instead of HND-ITM. Even NRT-ITM, though (which you'd think would be more of a clearcut choice), isn't really all that pleasant. It doesn't save any time and that bus ride at the end is just horrible after two flights like that.

That said, it's really six of one, half a dozen of the other. Both train and plane have their pros and cons. I remember that second flight being one of the weirdest flights of my life - I just could not get my bearings, and thought we were spiraling up and down the entire way. I also ended up leaving my jacket on the plane because I was so disoriented and had to go back to the airport to pick it up. And the bus ride was just a blur - I barely remember it, except for it seeming very long. But the train trip would have been more stressful at the head and tail ends, but less stressful in the middle.

Part of it depends on where you're staying in Kyoto. We were staying literally right next to the train station and I remember wondering why we didn't just take the train.

The limo-bus delivers right to Kyoto Station.

I can't believe that I, the biggest train geek on the board now that RRT has disappeared, am advocating for a flight instead of the train. :eek:

Personally I will take plane to ITM followed by bus, regardless if the paid by miles or cash (actually it may be wiser to pay for the ticket as it's only 10K Yen for domestic Yokoso / Welcome to Japan fare, YMMV)

If you take HND-ITM-Kyoto, you only need to move your luggage from HND arrival to custom, then re-check the bags for the domestic flight. Upon arrival to ITM, take the direct bus to Kyoto and there are ample of space for your luggage.

On the other hand, if you take train, you have to get the luggage on Keikyu Line (which is, of course, peak hour), followed by Shinkansen to Kyoto, that you have to pull the luggage all the way and Shinkansen is not particular known as luggage friendly.

Yeah but the point is so does the train, and the train is arguably easier in between. It's a relatively short transfer from Haneda to the shinkansen, then just relax for a while and you're there. By plane, you have to take another flight (and I'm not sure about Haneda but at Narita we had to go through security again) and then a fairly long bus ride, both of which are physically more tiring. At Haneda, don't you even have to change terminals? Or are there domestic connections out of the international terminal?

I thought I might have been just remembering the bus ride as long but I looked it up and it is an hour - it's not just a quick hop. I dunno, for me after a total of probably 15-16 hours on two different planes, that's just a lot to ask. Overall I think the train is about even in terms of speed vs. the flight/bus combo, and it's definitely more pleasant. (I have done Tokyo-Kyoto separately by train several times.)

You can always take a taxi to the shinkansen to avoid the rush hour on the keikyu line.

And I have done it dozens of times.

Everything in your post and that of others above is correct. As I stated in my first post, shinkansen is always my preferred means of travel when available. What the folks advocating for the train in this case seem to have missed is that, according to the OP, the plane option is almost free - costing a few Avios for an award ticket. The Nozomi cost is over 14k JPY out-of-pocket. The bus costs a few thousand but nothing close to that.

Cost was the reason I jumped ship from the train option. Again, as I mentioned above, if a Rail Pass is involved or cost of the train is not a concern, then the train is the better option.

I don't know how flexible or otherwise an award ticket on JL paid for with avios is, but if it is not flexible (i.e. can't be changed to an earlier or later flight) the OP may end up spending more time in HND waiting for a connecting flight than they care to. Or missing the connecting flight. There are hourly JL flights to ITM but they are not as frequent as the Shinkansen.

JL is known as follow-the-book. If your BA ticket is free to change to other flights, they will call BA to confirm it before helping you to change it. If you are on Yokoso ticket it is valid for same day standby.

Years before I have a CX award ticket and able to switch to later flight to catch my friend on the HND-CTS.

My recommendation to take plane here is to avoid hauling around the luggage, and transfer from International terminal to Domestic is quite a breeze. You just drop your bags at the check-in counter at International Terminal, pass through security, then hop on the inter-terminal bus.

http://www.haneda-airport.jp/inter/en/dept/int_dms.html

That defeat the purpose of Shinkansen that it may actually cheaper. Taxi to Shinagawa cost you something like 6000 Yen, plus if OP has 3 people or more, I doubt if all plus luggage can fit in the taxi.

Can't comment on the bus from Itami to Kyoto, I have only drive in my rental car and it's a 40 min ish ride

I would take a flight from HND to ITM, even if it cost the same as taking the Shinkansen straight to Kyoto.

You have to transfer from HND to Shinagawa in order to get the Shinkansen, and then you have a 2.5 hour ride to Kyoto, and you have to deal with either hauling or shipping your luggage. On the other hand, it's a 1 hour flight to ITM followed by 40 minutes on a bus, and you don't have to move your luggage more than a few meters at either HND or ITM.

Assuming the flight is more or less "free," for less than the cost of a single one-way shinkansen ticket you could even take a taxi straight from ITM to your hotel in Kyoto.

I'd also go with the flight - the ease of the transit from international to domestic is a huge thing, especially compared to having to navigate trains in the morning.

I always urge people to think about their plans before buying a ticket - often times something like XXX-TYO-OSA (with a stopover in Tokyo) or XXX-TYO (ground transport) OSA-XXX is the same price (or marginally more expensive) than XXX-TYO (not to mention ground transport there and back!).