Question regarding drinking etiquette
 

I have a question for flyertalk members who know Japan. I quit drinking many years ago after abusing alcohol as a young man. I do not drink at all. During our visit to Japan, we will be spending some time with a Japanese family who we like a great deal, and they are unaware that I don't drink. I am afraid I will offend them if they offer me sake or another drink and I refuse. How do I refuse gracefully? I have a client who travels to Korea a great deal who doesn't drink for similar reasons, and he struggles with this often.

My common way of refusing a drink that is offered is to simply thank the person and ask for soda water or something else non-alcoholic without any explanation, but I don't know if etiquette in Japan would require a different response.

Thank you for any guidance you can give me.

dcman2

There are some people in Japan who don't touch alcohol because of health, religion, alcoholism or simply being unable to process alcohol. (So, I guess the reasons boil down to health or religion). They come under pressure in work/business situations more than when among friends. In a business situation, you're often expected to forgo your personal preference - take one for the team, so to speak. Even in those situations, though, I think there's less pressure to drink than there used to be.

If I were you, I'd tell your host in advance - "By the way, I don't drink any alcohol. At meal times I usually drink sparkling water." Even so, your host will probably feel like he has to offer you some booze - failure to do so would be inhospitable. So be ready to say "Thanks. But I don't drink any alcohol." I think few people would ask why, but I know some people do. I have heard people say "My doctor told me that I had to quit completely" or "It just makes me feel very ill".

The trouble with asking for soda water is that you may find that they just don't have any in the house. It's readily available in supermarkets, but plenty of people simply don't have it at home. Same goes for Japanese restaurants. Your non-alcoholic options in some places will be tap water or tea (sometimes green tea, but often iced barley tea or oolong tea). Sometimes you just have to roll with it - I remember being with one colleague who caused a great fuss at a restaurant that served barley tea with lunch and he wanted green tea ("because this is Japan"). He was terribly surprised when the restaurant didn't go the extra mile for him ("I thought service was supposed to be great in Japan"). Come to think of it, he was a total a$$hat.

If you're staying a few days and you're getting tired of plain water or tea, you could say to your host "Do you mind if I buy some sparkling water? I think I'd like to have some with dinner". Your host will probably buy some.

Not all Japanese drink. Some East Asians have a metabolic condition that causes them to feel uncomfortable and turn red when they drink alcohol, so even though Japanese culture features a lot of drinking, not everyone drinks.

Other Japanese have had their doctors tell them to stop smoking and/or drinking. This is called dokutaa sutoppu "doctor stop" in Japanese English.

I have observed that when drink orders are taken in a group, there will usually be a group consensus to have a pitcher of beer or a flask of sake or whatever, but one person might say, "I'll have (insert name of non-alcoholic beverage)." No one questions it.

In my teaching days, I had students who had been Mormon missionaries, and obviously, they faced this situation on social occasions. They reported that bars always have Sprite or orange pop (known as juusu "juice") on hand for their teetotaling customers.

So there are many reasons why a Japanese person might not drink, and refusing and asking for something non-alcoholic would not be considered rude.

Yeah, I had an experience like that. While spending the summer in Japan in the 1980s, I met up with faculty member from the same university who was attending a conference in Tokyo and was showing him around. At lunch, he wanted authentic Japanese food, so I took him to the most kaiseki-like place I knew of, and when the waitress asked about beverages, I said that I was fine with just water, but he ordered milk. (The thought of milk with kaiseki makes me gag, but...)

The waitress started stammering apologies, and I leaned over and told him that the restaurant was very unlikely to keep milk on hand.

He started going on about how they SHOULD serve milk to please their customers. Never mind that he was probably the first customer in the history of the restaurant to ask for milk with his meal.

The whole day was like that.

Since you're staying with a Japanese family, they will totally understand. As noted above, it would probably be good to give them notice ahead of time. Is there someone who knows both you and the family, or possibly one member of the family who you are closest to? If so, then I would recommend telling that person, who could relay the news to the others. If you are OK with them drinking alcohol in your presence, be sure to tell them that. They will gladly serve you tea so that you can drink together.

Be aware of the situation. If the drinks are being served to a group, don't immediately take a sip from yours before the kanpai (like a toast). Drinking together has a few rituals, one of which is that you don't drink from your glass until all are prepared and then you drink the first sip (or gulp) together after an obvious cue.

You're a foreigner, so you will not be required to conform to Japanese rules.

You don't need to get into the details...just tell them in advance that you cannot (not will not) drink alcohol, refuse when you need to, and that will be that.

I totally agree with Hailstorm. Don't overly concern yourself.

On the other hand, the OP wants to make the situation as smooth as reasonable (which is a Japanese way of thinking), so I think that in this case of a formed relationship it's OK to do some ground work ahead of time.

Edit to note: Actually, reading the message again, maybe I just repeated haistorm's advice!

It's best to be honest and let your host know that you do not drink. They will understand and appreciate your honesty.

Well yes ... but how and when?

This. If you decline an offer to drink alcohol and get any pushback whatever, just say "doctor stop" in English and they will understand and not push the matter further. And, it's roughly true in the OP's situation, assuming some sort of medical professional was involved in his original decision to stop drinking.

Regarding alternate beverage choices in the home, others have given good advice. Don't assume that something commonly found in an American home will be there in Japan, whether it be cola, milk, or anything else. The first time I stayed in a Japanese home, they asked me what I normally drink with dinner, probably expecting the answer to be beer or wine. When I said "Diet Coke," they were surprised. Unbeknownst to me, a family member was immediately dispatched to go to the store to get some. Nothing was said until they were back with it in the grocery store bag. I was embarrassed at having made them go to all the trouble.

Their response is not surprising at all. What's amazing is that they found Diet Coke!

When I first came to Japan, there was a drink called "Coca Cola Light" that I liked, but it was gone a year later. I heard rumors that it was found to "dissolve bone"

Three years ago it changed to "Coca Cola Zero", so I doubt that you can find Diet Coke anywhere these days.

As always, the safest thing to ask for is water.

OP will be fine. Everyone has a non-alcoholic beverage of some kind in their house. Actually, I bought a bottle of sparkling wine for a house party recently (all Japanese guests) and ended up being the only person who drank any, as everyone else was having juice or tea...

Correct. Nowadays in Japan it's just Coke, Coke Zero or Coke Zero Free (= caffeine-free). From what I understand they are keeping the separate Diet and Zero brands in the US to cater to women and men respectively, while in Japan they seem to be targeting Zero at both groups.

Coke Zero in Japan uses aspartame, and IME is closer in flavor to American Diet Coke than to American Coke Zero, which uses sucralose. After getting used to drinking Coke Zero in Japan, I drank some in the US and was surprised at how bitter it tasted.

Going off topic here, but I remember Coke Light. Often came in a can smaller than a regular soft drink can but bigger than canned coffee. As I recall, it actually had 10 kcal, not 0. Can't remember what the sweetener was.

Thank you to everyone who responded. It sounds like my best strategy is to let the family know I do not drink prior to our visit, and to be careful to ask for water or other non-alcoholic drink that I know they have on hand. I expect they family we will be staying with will be very understanding, but I will likely practice (so I learn) doctor stop in Japanese so I can have use it in other circumstances if I need to.

I very much appreciate everyone's help.

dcman2

Just wanted to show my support for the OP. For me, the actual conversation is much easier to navigate than the anticipated conversations going round in my head. :)

That would be "dokutaa sutoppu" ;)

Have a good time!

The yellow smiley face is confusing me... I'm not sure I can get this right: "No alcohol for me thanks. I'm Doctor Yellow. No, I mean, I'm a Doctor Pepper. Oh doctor doctor ... "

what surprises me was the OP considered that you're forced to drink alcohol.
yes, it happens, but in a quite limited relationship and also disappearing these days .

If I were in the OP's situation - I'd go to a department store food basement. Buy a fair amount more of whatever I'd care to drink. Still water - sparkling water - whatever. The kind of more expensive stuff in nice bottles. Get it wrapped very nicely (which is normally not a problem). Present it as a gift to my host(s). And indicate that it was my drink of preference during my visit. Do you think that would work? And be polite too? Robyn

P.S. to OP - last time in Japan - I was drinking diet tonic water. No problem finding it in high end department store food basements.

In the big cities, sure. But out in the boonies, where there's not much else to do at night, drinking is still very much apart of the culture.

I suggest you ask for an orange whip. It's a very entertaining way to learn about Japanese culture.

I used to drink it when I was in Japan in the early 1990's. Going by a hazy memory and my (at the time) crappy Jpns, it was a mix of acesulfame potassium with a small amount of sugar to take the bitter taste off.

There's no way the sweetener "dissolves bones" (simply because if that was true it wouldn't still be on the market in most of the world!) although carbonated drinks in general reduce calcium in bones, IIRC.

It would "work" in the sense that the hosts would likely abide by the request, but now you've gone from saying "I cannot drink this" to "I will only drink this!", which I don't believe is the OP's intention at all.

Present it as a gift to my host(s). And indicate that it was my drink of preference during my visit.

Also, presenting something as a "gift" and then telling them you want to drink it yourself - that's kind of the opposite of a gift, and the opposite of polite. I can't think of any circumstances under which that wouldn't be outright rude.

The OP has a medical reason for not drinking alcohol. Outside of reasons like that, there's no reason why he should not at least try to drink whatever the host family offers, be it mugicha or aojiru or whatever.

I assume that he's not going all the way to Japan just to remain completely in his current comfort zone?

Agreed. Ask what they have that's non-alcoholic. Nothing rude about that and they will certainly have several interesting options from which to choose.

I agree also.
I've been off the sauce for my last couple of visits (pregnant and then breastfeeding) and, despite being in memorial occasions, celebrations and parties where the consumption of alcohol was normal, it felt natural to be drinking alternatives and wasn't an issue for me at all.

What the OP hasn't brought up is any comment about his degree of intolerance to alcohol. Alcohol does turn up in a range of foods. Some of the higher end soy sauces might be 1 to 3% alcohol, sake gets poured into the stews, the mirin sweetener could be alcoholic, it's actually quite a list.
These stealth nips never bothered me, but for those with zero tolerance/acceptance of alcohol there is a serious challenge to socialising in Japan. But merely avoiding alcoholic drinks? Not so much of a problem, I certainly don't remember having to tell absolutely everyone I came across that I was breastfeeding when I was last in Japan.

Perhaps if one bought a very large amount? Robyn

Can't see it. Sorry, robyng

Only difference is that taking a very large amount of water as a 'gift' would be weird rather than rude (or, more likely, weird AND rude).

In my own experience, anything taken to a Japanese household as a genuine gift meant to be consumed ends up in the family shrine for a while so that loved ones who have passed on get their share first (a big reason why these gifts are, in the main, so carefully and thoughtfully packaged).

See if I can explain it a bit more.
Imagine that MrLapLap has passed on and that I keep a shrine for him in the Japanese tradition. You, robyng, come to my home and bring a bottle (or even a very big bottle) of Finnish glacier water. It just so happens that this is something that MrLapLap might have enjoyed or found amusing and, although I'm a bit puzzled by the 'gift', I play along and place it at the shrine. My expectation is that it will stay there for a few hours at least, perhaps a day or more. Except, having presented it to us, my household, as a gift, you now want it back so you can drink it yourself.:confused:

Yes, that is basically how I reacted to the suggestion as well. It is beyond weird to bring someone a gift for the purpose of consuming it yourself. It would actually make more sense to simply bring your own drink and say that it's the only thing you drink (though that would still be pretty weird).

It was only an idea/suggestion from someone who doesn't know a whole lot about Japanese culture. FWIW - I have a refrigerator full of odds and ends of some "gifts" like that that people have given to me ;). Robyn

I understand that, robyng, which is why I took the time to explain.

So these "gifts" in your refrigerator, the guests brought them with the intention of consuming them themselves and then didn't? (or didn't finish them)
But you have no intention of eating/drinking them and haven't got rid of them because they were gifts?
Isn't that extremely annoying??
And how big is your refrigerator that you can afford to store stuff you know you will never eat (or do you feel compelled to keep some of it for your guests in case they drop around again?).

You come from a culture very different to my own (and to the one I partly adopted when I got married) and I'm genuinely fascinated by how things are done around your way. I'm sorry I had to say it seemed a bit weird, but from my cultural standing it just does, hence my desire to understand further.

Definitely ask for an orange whip. It transcends all cultures.

I have been working in Japan for a few months and usually the locals expect from Americans and Europeans to drink a lot. But especially if you are in a private situation, the Japanese are so polite and it will never be an issue if you reject alcohol. Many of them cannot drink at all, so you are not alone. You can always ask for a green tea.

I really don't like to eat seafood which is very unusual in Japan. But I just told them that I have an allergy and it was always accepted and they were even very much interested to help me to find something else on the menu.

As for business, drinking alcohol can really help you to get closer to some people and also improve relationships and the ability to close big deals. But in a private envirnoment, there is no need to worry.

Yes - they were gifts my guests intended to consume themselves. Things like diet coke (I don't drink soft drinks). I usually save this stuff for a year in case the guests return - but toss it after a year (although I've been chided that I've kept it beyond its expiration date <rolling eyes>).

Note that the storage isn't a problem. I have a large refrigerator/freezer in my kitchen - and a decent sized refrigerator in the garage that I use just for extra cold storage.

And on the few and far between occasions when I am a guest in someone's house - I will bring things that I am pretty sure my host will not have - so as not to put them out in terms of shopping. But I will also do an appropriate "thank you" - usually something like a dinner at a nice restaurant.

For example - I will be a guest at a relative's house for the first time in perhaps a decade this June. A niece is getting married in Michigan. I smoke - and Michigan is a total non-smoking state when it comes to hotels. So my BIL and SIL - rather than have me stay home - have insisted that I stay at their house. I will probably bring a bottle of gin (they just drink beer and wine). But we will take them out for the nicest meal we can find in their neck of the woods as a "thank you". Also help in terms of buying/preparing some food to cater any family brunch the day after the wedding. I think that's appropriate - yes?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I didn't think bringing something you might want in a host's house that you were pretty sure your host didn't have would be a means of saying "thank you". It would be a way to avoid inconveniencing your host - and then you say "thank you" for hospitality in other ways. I hope you understand my POV.

FWIW - the people who bring stuff for themselves to my house are members of my family. And they don't usually do anything more. Like take me and my husband out to dinner. Even if they're staying at our house - or we cook an elaborate dinner for them - or anything else. They're not the most considerate people in the world. OTOH - they are spending money to travel here. On the third hand - they never visited us at all for perhaps a decade after we moved here until my now 94 year old father moved here 7 years ago and I started to take care of most of his stuff. Robyn

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