Best non-"high-end" sushi in Tokyo?
Mar 25, 2013, 7:56 pm
#46
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I think the high end sushi joints are a waste of money. It is a cultish experience. If you watch the movie about Jiro you will see that there is this entourage of freaks led by a so-called food critic (more like chief genuflector) who worship Jiro. It probably also evolved into what it is during the bubble era; hence the high prices.
Mar 25, 2013, 8:55 pm
#47
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I think the high end sushi joints are a waste of money. It is a cultish experience. If you watch the movie about Jiro you will see that there is this entourage of freaks led by a so-called food critic (more like chief genuflector) who worship Jiro. It probably also evolved into what it is during the bubble era; hence the high prices.
You know, sushi means sour rice. The fish is only marginally better at the 3* Michelin restaurants. Who bought the prized "New Year" tuna? Zanmai. And this fish was served at a huge loss in the restaurants. What differentiates the top restaurants is the preparation of rice. But I really don't think Jiro's rice is worth a 25,000 yen mark-up for 12 pieces of sushi.
Americans who are looking for "fresh fish" are missing the point of high end sushi. They are trying to find something better than the Korean or Chinese run joint in the local strip mall. Do you think that Zanmai serves old fish? Or that the freshness is a function of price? Why didn't Jiro outbid Kimura-san for the top tuna? (Yes, I know it's a marketing ploy and Jiro doesn't have a spare $1 million to burn. Well, he should based on what he charges.) The standards for fish are very high in Japan across the board.
If you think about it, there is not a huge price differentiation with regard to sashimi, i.e. the raw fish. Obviously, it is served in every izakaya and is not a class of food in of itself. There are not any restaurants that are in the stratosphere price wise because they serve the best sashimi with the freshest or most select fish.
Compare the value for money that you get at a top-rated French restaurant in Tokyo. Or many Japanese kaiseki restaurants. I ate at a French 1* Michelin the other week. The menu was 6000. I am sorry, but this is a better food experience than any sushi, in my opinion. If someone wants to drop 30k yen for a high-end sushi meal then I am not going to stop them. And some people think Scientology is a great thing.
I read an interview with the only gaijin who is involved in the tuna wholesale business in Tsukiji, an Australian. One question was where one should go to get the best tuna. Answer: Zanmai.
Zanmai also has lower level kaiten sushi restaurants. I suppose that could be called fast food.
p.s. I agree with Joe, that you can view any sushi as fast food. Shows you how they have perfected the scam of high end sushi.
You know, sushi means sour rice. The fish is only marginally better at the 3* Michelin restaurants. Who bought the prized "New Year" tuna? Zanmai. And this fish was served at a huge loss in the restaurants. What differentiates the top restaurants is the preparation of rice. But I really don't think Jiro's rice is worth a 25,000 yen mark-up for 12 pieces of sushi.
Americans who are looking for "fresh fish" are missing the point of high end sushi. They are trying to find something better than the Korean or Chinese run joint in the local strip mall. Do you think that Zanmai serves old fish? Or that the freshness is a function of price? Why didn't Jiro outbid Kimura-san for the top tuna? (Yes, I know it's a marketing ploy and Jiro doesn't have a spare $1 million to burn. Well, he should based on what he charges.) The standards for fish are very high in Japan across the board.
If you think about it, there is not a huge price differentiation with regard to sashimi, i.e. the raw fish. Obviously, it is served in every izakaya and is not a class of food in of itself. There are not any restaurants that are in the stratosphere price wise because they serve the best sashimi with the freshest or most select fish.
Compare the value for money that you get at a top-rated French restaurant in Tokyo. Or many Japanese kaiseki restaurants. I ate at a French 1* Michelin the other week. The menu was 6000. I am sorry, but this is a better food experience than any sushi, in my opinion. If someone wants to drop 30k yen for a high-end sushi meal then I am not going to stop them. And some people think Scientology is a great thing.
I read an interview with the only gaijin who is involved in the tuna wholesale business in Tsukiji, an Australian. One question was where one should go to get the best tuna. Answer: Zanmai.
Zanmai also has lower level kaiten sushi restaurants. I suppose that could be called fast food.
p.s. I agree with Joe, that you can view any sushi as fast food. Shows you how they have perfected the scam of high end sushi.
How many of us wake up each morning filled with undiluted passion for what we do? I don't think even the Pope does - but from what I understand, the pursuit of total perfection fills Jiro with the passion and dedication to elevate a simple dish into true living art. Not just a slab of raw fish on rice, but honoring each fish whose life was taken for our nourishment by creating a visual, textured and tasteful object to be admired, appreciated and savored.
I've had pretty good tasting sushi in the US, but I'm sure the sushi at Zanmai will be a whole new world - but it won't be the same as eating a piece of sushi which is a handcrafted gift from someone who has dedicated their entire life to perfect it.
His personality and view about non-Japanese (regulars) invading his restaurant in just a side note and won't sully my experience. Wagner was a nasty, disgusting, racist pig, yet millions passionately soak up his music every day.
The trick will be to get a reservation now for a visit in late May, and be able to get a seat at his main restaurant to be served by Jiro - that is a feat I might not be able to pull off, and if it doesn't happen and we end up at Roppongi, it still won't be a disappointment.
Mar 25, 2013, 11:53 pm
#48
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I think I asked you this before, but have you had the good stuff? If you have, and you still feel that way, the polite thing to say in public is "to each his own", the less polite thing to say is "I feel for you that you cannot experience the sublimeness of high-end sushi", and what I'm thinking is "this guy sounds like a run-of-the-mill shmendrik who doesn't know what he's talking about." I leave it to you to decide which description you take away from my response to your finely reasoned screed.
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Mar 26, 2013, 1:04 am
#49
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I appreciate your point of view - but my reason for eating at Jiro is not for the fish, although tasting fish and rice that makes every American sushi restaurant, quality or not, look like joke is part of the package - the reason for eating at Jiro is to experience, see and taste 30+ years of love, passion and dedication to perfecting the art of one simple thing - raw fish on rice.
How many of us wake up each morning filled with undiluted passion for what we do? I don't think even the Pope does - but from what I understand, the pursuit of total perfection fills Jiro with the passion and dedication to elevate a simple dish into true living art. Not just a slab of raw fish on rice, but honoring each fish whose life was taken for our nourishment by creating a visual, textured and tasteful object to be admired, appreciated and savored.
I've had pretty good tasting sushi in the US, but I'm sure the sushi at Zanmai will be a whole new world - but it won't be the same as eating a piece of sushi which is a handcrafted gift from someone who has dedicated their entire life to perfect it.
His personality and view about non-Japanese (regulars) invading his restaurant in just a side note and won't sully my experience. Wagner was a nasty, disgusting, racist pig, yet millions passionately soak up his music every day.
The trick will be to get a reservation now for a visit in late May, and be able to get a seat at his main restaurant to be served by Jiro - that is a feat I might not be able to pull off, and if it doesn't happen and we end up at Roppongi, it still won't be a disappointment.
How many of us wake up each morning filled with undiluted passion for what we do? I don't think even the Pope does - but from what I understand, the pursuit of total perfection fills Jiro with the passion and dedication to elevate a simple dish into true living art. Not just a slab of raw fish on rice, but honoring each fish whose life was taken for our nourishment by creating a visual, textured and tasteful object to be admired, appreciated and savored.
I've had pretty good tasting sushi in the US, but I'm sure the sushi at Zanmai will be a whole new world - but it won't be the same as eating a piece of sushi which is a handcrafted gift from someone who has dedicated their entire life to perfect it.
His personality and view about non-Japanese (regulars) invading his restaurant in just a side note and won't sully my experience. Wagner was a nasty, disgusting, racist pig, yet millions passionately soak up his music every day.
The trick will be to get a reservation now for a visit in late May, and be able to get a seat at his main restaurant to be served by Jiro - that is a feat I might not be able to pull off, and if it doesn't happen and we end up at Roppongi, it still won't be a disappointment.
Ditto when I used to live in Italy. I ran into a number of places where it was clear the folks loved what they were creating/making (food). Day by day with local ingredients from people they knew. I remember the old man working at L'Antica Pizzeria in Naples, wearing a suit (no jacket) and tie, with the apron on, seriously making his pizzas with incredible speed and precision, but turning around and smiling at gawking visitors (like me) on occasion. I am sure if you replaced this guy's San Marzano tomatoes (and a more specific subset I bet) or his mozzarella, that he would riot.
That being said, I've long wanted to to Jiro but I don't like the whole xenophobic thing, especially when I have heard/read from many Japanese that there is similar or better stuff around in Japan (to each his own).
Mar 26, 2013, 1:06 am
#50
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A higher end sushi restaurant (michelin * or not) does offer a much more refined experience than a zanmai ever could. To simply compare the cost of the raw ingredients would make any high end restaurant seem overpriced. Am sure I could find the bottle of wine at the French 1* joint for much cheaper and nothing beats the home cooked meal of my French friend's grandmother. The prices are sky high, but then they only serve a handful of customers per meal. I certainly found the taste and experience at high end sushi places worth the occasional splurge, and actually more weary of trying high end French restaurants in Tokyo compared to what the same price would buy me in France.
Mar 26, 2013, 1:34 am
#51
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What I do know and will state as a fact (after having eaten in dozens of "sushi joints" all over Japan) is that at a high-end "sushi joint" there is a definite difference in the quality of the fish, the care with which is selected, the matching between the seasons and what is being served, and the effort and work that goes into its preparation. As a result, you're, undeniably, getting a superior eating experience.
Whether it is worth paying for is a different question, and one where value judgments come into play. I'm perfectly OK with people saying that it isn't worth it to them, that they don't get enough "kick" out of the experience to make it worth paying for. But somehow implying that a "high end sushi joint" is not worth it because it is a variant on a hoodwinking scam on the eating public is an insult to both the "sushi joints" and to people who eat there.
Mar 26, 2013, 5:27 am
#53
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I think I asked you this before, but have you had the good stuff? If you have, and you still feel that way, the polite thing to say in public is "to each his own", the less polite thing to say is "I feel for you that you cannot experience the sublimeness of high-end sushi", and what I'm thinking is "this guy sounds like a run-of-the-mill shmendrik who doesn't know what he's talking about." I leave it to you to decide which description you take away from my response to your finely reasoned screed.
Mar 26, 2013, 6:31 am
#54
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I've gotta say that I'm closer to gnaget's side on this one. IME, much of the expensive sushi in Tokyo is expensive for the sake of being expensive and not expensive because it is objectively better in any non-imagined way. The best I've ever had was late at night at a hole in the wall in Tsukiji, and it was several orders of magnitude better than Kyubey (indeed it was basically the kind of culinary orgasm to which Pickles alludes). Presentation, seasonality, etc. etc. is something that you can get in ample supply at any number of non-starred four-digit places, and indeed this is one of the things that keeps me in Japan (versus the US where even many "fine dining" establishments completely ignore these factors).
Mar 26, 2013, 7:12 am
#55
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I've had great sushi that made me wonder how such a thing was possible, But I have also had expensive sushi that reminded me of the "emperor's new clothes" (i.e. everyone making a huge fuss over something and I'm the ingénue who has to point out that it's no better than stuff I've had for half the price). And I've had sushi in joints where I felt the owner's contempt of the customers who paid his bills was unjustified. I guess I'm incapable of compartmentalizing the way I feel about the food and the way I feel about having to pay such a high price for it.
But I have another question - Is it a "known thing" that jiro is a Wagnerian xenophobe? Or is this an imaginative read on the experience of many people who just felt slighted by him and unwilling to bend to his view of what the dining experience entails?
But I have another question - Is it a "known thing" that jiro is a Wagnerian xenophobe? Or is this an imaginative read on the experience of many people who just felt slighted by him and unwilling to bend to his view of what the dining experience entails?
Mar 26, 2013, 8:03 am
#56
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Give me a break. Seasonality is key to all Japanese restaurants and cuisine in general.
It's ridiculous to compare the "preparation and care" in making sour rice and sticking a piece of fish on it compared to the technique, imagination, etc. in Haute Cuisine and also Japanese cuisine. I think the Japanese recognize this. Yes, I am enjoying the new run of Iron Chef? Is there an Iron Chef sushi? Didn't think so.
Some clever entrepreneurs at some time have taken something simple and basic and made a cult out of it. When? That's an interesting issue. I bet it took off some time in the 1980s. It's amusing how Mr. Pickles becomes irate and insults me because I have a different opinion and am bursting the sushi bubble.
It's ridiculous to compare the "preparation and care" in making sour rice and sticking a piece of fish on it compared to the technique, imagination, etc. in Haute Cuisine and also Japanese cuisine. I think the Japanese recognize this. Yes, I am enjoying the new run of Iron Chef? Is there an Iron Chef sushi? Didn't think so.
Some clever entrepreneurs at some time have taken something simple and basic and made a cult out of it. When? That's an interesting issue. I bet it took off some time in the 1980s. It's amusing how Mr. Pickles becomes irate and insults me because I have a different opinion and am bursting the sushi bubble.
Mar 26, 2013, 8:28 am
#58
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The place has no Michelin stars, but sees a pretty good flow of people, regulars and people that come by word of mouth because the word gets out that this dude is the shizzle when it comes to sushi. Having said that, I don't think this is a big moneymaker business for the restaurant. The guy does this because he's committed to serving the best possible fish. This is more of a calling than a business.
Mar 26, 2013, 10:48 am
#59
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I don't think it really has anything to do with xenophobia. Jiro is arguably less patient with Japanese customers who offend him, as he expects them to be familiar with proper sushi dining etiquette. It is not uncommon for him to snatch back a piece of sushi that has been left untouched for several minutes, or (less frequently) even to eject an ill-mannered customer from the restaurant in more serious cases. I think he is quite right to hold his customers to certain standards and to enforce them.
Mar 26, 2013, 11:13 am
#60
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...At my favorite place, the boss will write out the menu by hand every day, listing what he's got that day, and where it came from, down to the nori and the salt. If you want buri, you'll have to be lucky enough to be there the two weeks in December when the boss deems it good enough to serve in his restaurant. Otherwise, you're SOL, no buri for you. But, there will be other things on the menu, selected that morning by the boss at the market from his suppliers, which date back to the 1940s when the boss's father opened a "sushi joint" back in the day.
The place has no Michelin stars, but sees a pretty good flow of people, regulars and people that come by word of mouth because the word gets out that this dude is the shizzle when it comes to sushi. Having said that, I don't think this is a big moneymaker business for the restaurant. The guy does this because he's committed to serving the best possible fish. This is more of a calling than a business.
The place has no Michelin stars, but sees a pretty good flow of people, regulars and people that come by word of mouth because the word gets out that this dude is the shizzle when it comes to sushi. Having said that, I don't think this is a big moneymaker business for the restaurant. The guy does this because he's committed to serving the best possible fish. This is more of a calling than a business.