Pickles

I'm partial to gas station sushi, myself.

As for Zanmai, it is a mid-range chain, not bad, but not outstanding or memorable. A formerly very prolific poster in these them boards was a big fan of the place and would make the point regularly that Zanmai was far superior to the top-end places. Don't know if he really believed what he posted or he was just being obstreperous, but my observations align with yours. I'd eat there if it was 4 AM and nothing else was open.

WorldLux

The whole thing obviously attracts thousands of tourists but the better places are IMO closer to the large market hall that you can see on Google maps (switch to Satellite mode) and where there are much more delivery trucks, forklifts, etc. moving about.

It's obviously more expensive compared to medium-range products in Japan where quality is usually still very good. I had supermarket sushi in Japan that was tastier than what many will serve in NA or Europe, where sushi is usually lots of rice with something that resembles fish or lots of rice and chicken (don't know why they still insist calling it sushi). Even plenty of Japanese sushi chain restaurants (e.g. Sushi Itame where someone once invited me) serve better fish than what you'd get in NA/Europe for the same price.

I like going to Tsukiji every now and then since I roughly pay what I pay at my favourite sushi place back home (run by a Japanese chef) but I'm getting much better fish (much less rice, fresh fish).

codex57

So you're saying foodies don't have to make a trip out there unless they're trying to hit up one of the famous places? That you can find mid-range stuff anywhere, including a department store food court?

Honestly, I'm just trying to find "good" sushi. My bar is probably pretty low. The one good place in town is fairly expensive, but it's the only one run by a Japanese person even though there are lots of Japanese here (most are like 5th generation though). Pretty much every other sushi shop is owned by a Korean person. This area isn't exactly foodie town anyways. Yelp reviews can't be trusted cuz locals have no idea what good food is. Tsukiji, being next to where the fish are initially sold, just seems like an easy place to be able to find "good" sushi, but apparently that's not the case. I'll wait 30 minutes, but I'm not waiting an hour or more on vacation.

jib71

Foodie is someone who wants to "find mid-range stuff"? You can find mid-range sushi in almost any part of Tokyo without waiting in line. There is no need to go to the wholesale market. The fish that you consume at the restaurants all over Tokyo came from there. If you're a foodie in the sense that you're interested in what goes on behind the scenes to get the daily catch to your plate, then it's worth seeing Tsukiji.

Visit any department store and go to the top floors, where you will find one (or maybe several) sushi restaurants. Pick one with lunch menus in the 2,000 to 4,000 yen range. That's going to get you some decent sushi. I don't know your home town so I won't make predictions about how much better the sushi in Tokyo will be - but it would be pretty cool if you would post your impressions after you have tried it.

angra

I'm not a huge sushi fan so I don't know how good tabelog is with sushi, but with many other types of food, I find it quite a decent place to start my hunt for good food.

The link below should go to an search of sushi places in tokyo with lunch course under 6000Y (should be a slider to adjust price as you see fit) sorted by tabelog score.

https://tabelog.com/en/tokyo/rstLst/...=0&SrtT=rt&PG=

davidgrahammd

Tsukiji can be an impressive place to visit, especially with someone who knows the area and what is in season. The outer market is a treasure trove of different foods and cooking items. I would especially look at Masamoto knives!. In terms of sushi at the market, you can certainly standin line for hours or you can go a stall or two over and get very good sushi or donburi bowls with minimal or no wait and cheaper. Just be open to look around a bit and walk in somewhere and say konnichiwa!

I won't list anything here but I can make a recommendation for a guide if you would message me.

codex57

Thanks. I'm a foodie in that I love trying food that's supposed to be good. However, I don't match the typical foodie in that "value" figures highly into my equation as to whether something is good or not. That and I don't always like a lot of the foods that higher end places like to use, but those ingredients tend to get them the highest accolades. Like foie gras or truffles. I live in the greater Sacramento area. However, I'm from the LA area and DW is from SF and our families are still out there so we're still tapped into the food scenes in those places. But, living in Sacramento means we have to eat around here most of the time which forces us to be much more forgiving out of necessity. My guess is the sushi at a combini in Japan is equal to or greater than nearly all sushi in the Sacramento area. There is a Japanese supermarket in the area and it's bento boxes for takeout are better than most sushi restaurants. It's pretty sad really.

With sushi and a somewhat limited time in Japan, I'm not that into sushi itself enough to wait too long on my vacation for something. I'm willing to go slightly less "good" if it means a much shorter wait. I'm working my way around the famous ramen places in the Bay Area and have waited up to 3 hours (not worth it), but that's because my time isn't as limited as it's my home area and not a vacation. In Japan, I want to eat a lot and try lots of things, along with shopping and sightseeing. Waiting 2+ hours means that much less time to try another food place or see another sight or shop some more. I'm already bringing one extra empty suitcase and probably buying another there for all the stuff I plan on bringing back.

angra

for a value-focused foodie, be sure to look up the term B-kyu.

For sushi, most of the higher end places take reservations, so waiting shouldn't be a huge issue. *getting* the reservations can be. rely on your hotel concierge or a local friend to help secure reservations (in advance for higher end places).

for ramen, I'm just going to leave this here: https://ramendb.supleks.jp/ . My trips to Japan involved hit or miss success with ramen until I started going by that sites ratings. You can narrow down based on specific styles that you want, which is huge for me since there are styles I dislike.

AlwaysAisle

I think that is correct assumption, you do not have to make a trip to Tsukiji market area to get most flavorful fish for sushi. In beef it is well known that aged beef provide better flavor than freshly slaughtered beef. Similar thing was shown for raw fish by scientific study.

In a body of fish there are two chemicals which provide flavor to human pallet, glutamic acid and inosinic acid. It was shown that live fish contains glutamic acid but body of live fish contain hardly any inosinic acid. It was shown that once fish is dead, adenosine triphosphate (which is the energy source for fish) in body of fish degrades and create inosinic acid. The study showed that amount on inosinic acid reach highest around 10 hrs. after the death of fish.

Which means if fish is kept in proper refrigeration condition to prevent fish from rotting, then flavor of fish reaches peak around 10 hrs. after the death.

This translates to fresh fish alive in the morning at Tsukiji market will give best flavor around 10 hrs. after that. Having sushi at a restaurant at Tsukiji market early on the morning where fish was still alive that morning, likely will not give best flavor of fish.

Once fish was transported out of Tsukiji market and being served at sushi resturants around greater Tokyo area later in that day will likely have better flavor.

codex57

Thank you. I'm not opposed to low end or high end dining. It's just that the choices start to get overwhelming when you're that wide open. There are even too many ratings or lists to choose from on the web so it's helpful to get recommendations.

Thanks for the great explanation. Us Americans get beef, but I had no idea about fish.