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-   -   Splitting one-way train journeys into overnight segments? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan/1114165-splitting-one-way-train-journeys-into-overnight-segments.html)

jbfield Aug 8, 2010 3:15 pm

Splitting one-way train journeys into overnight segments?
 
I seem to recall that with train tickets in Japan, it's possible to buy a ticket from A to B and get off and on during the journey without extra charge.

I'm not sure if this is still true and if so, the limitations on this (if it's limited to only certain train companies/service types/routes/days).

I'm going to be travelling from Nagoya CentrAir Airport to Osaka Kansai and will be stopping overnight in Nagoya, Kyoto and Osaka along the way; the whole journey will take place over 6-days. Considering it's a one-way journey I'm wondering if it'll be cheaper (and possible) to buy a through-ticket that allows me to get off and on again at the various stations?
If so, where would I go about buying such a ticket?

jib71 Aug 8, 2010 4:20 pm

Heh. Can't wait to see Railroad Tycoon's response to this...

IIRC, there are rules that allow a stopover (Tochuu Gessha / 途中下車) on journeys over 200km. For even longer journeys it's possible have more than one stopover. The rules are complicated...

The OP's journey from NGO to Nagoya will most likely be on a Meitetsu railway line, so that's going to require a separate ticket from the rest of the trip. Therefore, the JR part of this itinerary is likely to be a journey from Nagoya to KIX via Kyoto and Osaka. So I have a feeling that the idea of saving some pennies in this way is a non-starter. (Perhaps Nagoya to Osaka with a stop in Kyoto can be priced as a single ticket, but that doesn't have the potential to deliver huge savings)

I suspect it might be possible to issue a single ticket for a journey from Nagoya to KIX with validity over two days and one overnight stopover in, say, Kyoto. However, I doubt that JR will issue a single ticket for a Nagoya to KIX trip over more than two days with stopovers in Kyoto and Osaka.

The OP might want to consider whether it's actually necessary to stay a night in all those different places. Kyoto and Osaka are within comfortable commuting distance. Many people use one of those cities as their base to visit the entire Kansai region.

Instead of this "stopover" plan, I suspect that there are better savings by using a Kansai area pass (http://www.westjr.co.jp/english/travel/jrp/) to ride the Haruka to KIX.

jbfield Aug 8, 2010 5:03 pm

Thank you, I will look into the Kansai pass.
I'll been staying in Nagoya for two nights, Kyoto one night and then Osaka for the final night so if the ticket has to start in Nagoya instead of NGO then it can be considered a three day ticket instead of six.

The only reason I'm adding the stop in Osaka is because I've got an international flight from KIX at 10:50 in the morning and travelling from Kyoto to KIX might otherwise mean too early a start. Happy to spend two nights in Kyoto instead of one if I can get around that though.

*Last time I got the train from Osaka to KIX it took about 40 - 60 minutes so I have that in my mind as well.

abmj-jr Aug 8, 2010 6:29 pm


Originally Posted by jbfield (Post 14444604)
... The only reason I'm adding the stop in Osaka is because I've got an international flight from KIX at 10:50 in the morning and travelling from Kyoto to KIX might otherwise mean too early a start. Happy to spend two nights in Kyoto instead of one if I can get around that though...

Then skip Osaka and stay in Kyoto 2 nights. The airport express train - the JR Haruka - takes 65 minutes from ShinOsaka Station to KIX. The exact same train leaves from Kyoto Station en route to KIX via ShinOsaka 13 minutes earlier. For that extra 13 minutes, you can avoid moving hotel one extra time and enjoy Kyoto for an extra night.

There really won't be much, if any, advantage to trying to get all your train travel on one ticket. As previously stated, your trip from NGO into Nagoya will be on the Meitetsu Limited Express. Going from Nagoya to Kyoto will be on the JR shinkansen ("bullet train") and the trip from Kyoto to KIX will be on the Haruka. All seperate lines and seperate tickets. You might save some money on the KIX leg by purchasing a JR Kansai area pass but consolidating tickets isn't going to help much.

There is a 7:15am Haruka from Kyoto that will get you to KIX at 8:54am, which should be plenty of time for a 10:50am flight. If you feel adventurous, the 7:50am Haruka arrives at KIX at 9:23am. That might be cutting it a bit close but could be doable in a pinch, particularly if you are not checking luggage.

jib71 Aug 8, 2010 6:37 pm


Originally Posted by jbfield (Post 14444604)
The only reason I'm adding the stop in Osaka is because I've got an international flight from KIX at 10:50 in the morning and travelling from Kyoto to KIX might otherwise mean too early a start. Happy to spend two nights in Kyoto instead of one if I can get around that though.

Hmm ... Limited Express HARUKA 7 departs Kyoto Station at 7.15 and reaches KIX at 8.54. Speaking for myself, a 7.15am departure would be preferable to a change of hotel. The Granvia hotel in Kyoto is convenient for early departures, as it's directly connected to the station.

If you prefer to go to Osaka, I suggest you look at hotels near Namba station (e.g. Swissotel). It's a lively place to spend your last evening in Japan and you can take the Nankai Rapi:t train, which gets you to the airport in 40 mins. Or a Nankai airport Express, which gets you there a bit cheaper and ten minutes slower. (These trains are run by Nankai railways - not JR).

If you want to wake up as late as possible on your final day, then you could take the last train from Kyoto to the airport and spend the night at the hotel on the airport island.

joejones Aug 8, 2010 7:16 pm

I didn't know that stopovers existed on JR tickets, but apparently they do. The details are here (in Japanese):

http://www.jr-odekake.net/guide/info_2a.html

Unfortunately, you wouldn't be able to get two stopovers over six days on a Nagoya-Osaka itinerary because tickets up to 200 km are only valid for two days...

jib71 Aug 9, 2010 3:00 am

According to Hyperdia, the distance from Nagoya to Kyoto is 247.4 km. So JR allows one stopover and max. two days.

The fare for a single "stopover" ticket (using Nozomi and Haruka) is 8,770 yen
The sum of the fares for two separate tickets (same trains) is 9,530 yen
The Nozomi fare + Kansai pass is 7,840 yen.

The savings from a "stopover" ticket on this itinerary aren't huge.

I think stopovers offer better savings for journeys on one express line that you break into two chunks (allowing you to avoid paying an express surcharge twice) than they do for journeys that involve two separate express trains. Thus a Nagoya to Kobe itin. with a one-night stopover in Kyoto will save you more money than a Nagoya to Kansai Airport itin. with a one-night stopover in Kyoto. (Corrected in the light of Joe's post below)

True budget travellers will take highway buses from Nagoya to Kyoto and possibly a local train from Kyoto to Osaka, followed by a Nankai airport train to KIX.

joejones Aug 9, 2010 5:08 am


Originally Posted by jib71 (Post 14446569)
I think stopovers offer better savings for journeys on one express line that you break into two chunks (allowing you to avoid paying an express surcharge twice) than they do for journeys that involve two separate express trains.

Nope. If you see the page linked above, it says there are no stopovers on express tickets. You could get a stopover on the base fare but you would still have to pay two express surcharges if you are riding the express on both days.

jib71 Aug 9, 2010 5:15 am


Originally Posted by joejones (Post 14446861)
you would still have to pay two express surcharges

Okay - Then the money savings on these babies are really underwhelming. That's probably why they get so little attention.

jbfield Aug 9, 2010 2:17 pm


Originally Posted by abmj-jr
There is a 7:15am Haruka from Kyoto that will get you to KIX at 8:54am, which should be plenty of time for a 10:50am flight. If you feel adventurous, the 7:50am Haruka arrives at KIX at 9:23am. That might be cutting it a bit close but could be doable in a pinch, particularly if you are not checking luggage.

Where do you find the timetables?

I found this handy website although it's not always that accurate (e.g. Nagoya Airport to Nagoya suggests a bus transfer to join the train):
http://www.jorudan.co.jp/english/

abmj-jr Aug 9, 2010 3:32 pm


Originally Posted by jbfield (Post 14450027)
Where do you find the timetables? ...

http://www.hyperdia.com/classic_en/hyperWeb.cgi

jib71 Aug 9, 2010 4:34 pm


Originally Posted by jbfield (Post 14450027)
Where do you find the timetables?

Why are you attributing abmj's post to me?

RichardInSF Aug 12, 2010 7:22 am

OK, the complete answer is that stopovers of limited duration are sort-of available, but there is an upper bound on the entire journey on one ticket depending on length. However, even the longest ride is limited to something like 48-72 hours.

On a limited express or shinkansen, the ticket price is made up of two parts: the FARE and the SUPPLEMENT. The fare part allows stopovers, the supplement part is point-point. In many cases, the supplement part is higher than the fare part. The shorter the segment, the larger the supplement is as a percentage of the total.

So if you take a local train, and don't use the machines, you can get off and on all you want during the validity of the long distance ticket (show it to the agent). Your trip will take forever, but people do it if time is less valuable than money to them. On the faster trains, the supplement rules tend to kill all but a few hundred yen of the savings.

ksandness Aug 12, 2010 7:52 am

Unlike, say, the UK, you normally get no discount for booking in advance, and base ticket prices are based strictly on distance, unless you're on a shuuyuuken (limited-time regional pass of the sort available to residents of Japan).

If you're going on local trains, for example, there is no price advantage in buying a through-ticket from Point A to Point C over buying a ticket from Point A to Point B and then another ticket from Point B to Point C. The class-of-service charge wipes out most savings on non-ordinary trains, however.

ninja138 Aug 12, 2010 11:46 am

When exactly will you be in Japan? A Seishun 18 Kippu (青春18きっぷ) is a possible alternative, although you are forced to only take JR rapid and local trains. If you want to travel faster on the JR express trains, all you need to do is pay the surcharge though. The exact dates would also be helpful in working out an exact train itinerary on Jorudan/Hyperdia/Yahoo! Japan.


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