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JAL canceled our flight and is refusing to put us on alternative

JAL canceled our flight and is refusing to put us on alternative

Old Oct 21, 22, 5:01 pm
  #1  
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JAL canceled our flight and is refusing to put us on alternative

I have had a shockingly bad experience with Japan Airlines and Amex Travel. We were booked on business class JFK-HND, NRT-HAN. Japan airlines canceled my outbound flight JAL 3 from JFK-HND and their automated system put us on a daytime flight which gave us 45 minutes connection between HND and NRT. (clearly impossible)

We attempted to resolve this with Amex Travel. We've talked to 7 agents and they eventually determined we need to involve JAL. At this point we have it escalated with supervisor at Amex Travel who is being told by JAL that there is no other options and that the only thing they can offer is refund. Also at some point when Amex Travel agent was working on our reservation they canceled our flight JFK-HND (the automated one that didn't connect) so currently we have no flight for that leg.

Our flight is not until November 19th and we do not want a refund as this is a huge trip for us. JAL/Amex travel shows that they are still selling flights and we were even willing to be flexible and accept leaving earlier or different routing.

I find this response from JAL to be hugely inappropriate and I think even illegal. As a ticketed passenger, airline is obligated to provide passage to me to Tokyo as I was originally ticketed? We've told agents like 5+ times that we DO NOT want refund and yet these continue to try and push this on us without providing ANY other options. Is this not illegal?

I appreciate any suggestions that people have for recourse. Currently we've escalated this further up in Amex Travel chain but we've already spent 10+ hours on phone trying to resolve. Hugely frustrating experience. 😩





response from Amex Travel / JAL after escalation, 10+ hours on phone, 7 agents
eltoddo22 is offline  
Old Oct 21, 22, 5:44 pm
  #2  
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Originally Posted by eltoddo22
I have had a shockingly bad experience with Japan Airlines and Amex Travel. We were booked on business class JFK-HND, NRT-HAN. Japan airlines canceled my outbound flight JAL 3 from JFK-HND and their automated system put us on a daytime flight which gave us 45 minutes connection between HND and NRT. (clearly impossible)

We attempted to resolve this with Amex Travel. We've talked to 7 agents and they eventually determined we need to involve JAL. At this point we have it escalated with supervisor at Amex Travel who is being told by JAL that there is no other options and that the only thing they can offer is refund. Also at some point when Amex Travel agent was working on our reservation they canceled our flight JFK-HND (the automated one that didn't connect) so currently we have no flight for that leg.

Our flight is not until November 19th and we do not want a refund as this is a huge trip for us. JAL/Amex travel shows that they are still selling flights and we were even willing to be flexible and accept leaving earlier or different routing.

I find this response from JAL to be hugely inappropriate and I think even illegal. As a ticketed passenger, airline is obligated to provide passage to me to Tokyo as I was originally ticketed? We've told agents like 5+ times that we DO NOT want refund and yet these continue to try and push this on us without providing ANY other options. Is this not illegal?

I appreciate any suggestions that people have for recourse. Currently we've escalated this further up in Amex Travel chain but we've already spent 10+ hours on phone trying to resolve. Hugely frustrating experience. 😩





response from Amex Travel / JAL after escalation, 10+ hours on phone, 7 agents
Can you share more info on the booking class and whether this booked as a codeshare flight? If this is an I fare, just tell them to put you on JL8005 to NRT on Nov 18 if they arent willing to open up inventory on Nov 19.

based on the conditions of carriage, you have the option to choose between reroute and refund. But if you choose to reroute, JL has the option to put you on the flights and routings that is available.

Based on my limited experience with Amex Travel/Expedia, the agents have a lot of room for improvements. Try proposed what you see is available and go from there. If its a simple date change without changing the fare, it should be pretty straight forward to resolve

https://www.jal.co.jp/jp/en/inter/carriage/220920/

(B)Involuntary Rerouting
  • (1)Unless otherwise provided in sub-paragraph (2) of paragraph (B) of Article 12, in the event that JAL cancels a flight, fails to operate a flight reasonably according to the schedule, fails to stop at a Passenger's Destination or Stopover point, is unable to provide a Passenger with his/her reserved seat or causes a Passenger to miss a connecting flight on which he/she holds a reservation, JAL will, at the Passenger's option, follow either (a) or (b) below:
    • (a)JAL will have the option of providing any of the following remedies:
      • (i)carry the Passenger on any other flight of JAL on which a seat is available;
      • (ii)either Endorse to any other Carrier the unused portion of the Ticket to request such Carrier to carry the Passenger or request other transportation service to carry the Passenger; or
      • (iii)effect a Rerouting and carry the Passenger, by any other flight of JAL or any other Carrier or by any other transportation services, to his/her Destination or Stopover point indicated in the Ticket or any applicable portion thereof.
    • (b)JAL will provide an involuntary refund in accordance with paragraph (C) of Article 13
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Old Oct 21, 22, 6:02 pm
  #3  
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Originally Posted by JALPak
Can you share more info on the booking class and whether this booked as a codeshare flight? If this is an I fare, just tell them to put you on JL8005 to NRT on Nov 18 if they arent willing to open up inventory on Nov 19.
First off, thank you very informative! Yes, it is an "I" fare revenue business class... all on JL flight numbers booked through Amex Travel.

Those alternative options that you mentioned is the level of customer service that I would typically expect in a flight change. I asked Amex agent about options on 16th, 17th, and 18th, 19th and they told me not available for all of them. We looked at partner options on Finnair, Cathay, Qatar, Emirates and again I was told not available. This isn't just 1 bad agent either... I've talked to 7 or 8 agents at this point including supervisors and was clear that I willing to accept different dates and partner flights.

I really don't know why JAL and Amex Travel are being so dysfunctional on this... perhaps it could be related to Amex agent canceling my JFK-HND leg but Amex Travel has not admitted to that being a problem.

I'll also try calling JAL in Japan directly and seeing if helps resolve. (typically I go through Amex since that is where I booked through)
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Old Oct 21, 22, 6:13 pm
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Originally Posted by eltoddo22
First off, thank you very informative! Yes, it is an "I" fare revenue business class... all on JL flight numbers booked through Amex Travel.

Those alternative options that you mentioned is the level of customer service that I would typically expect in a flight change. I asked Amex agent about options on 16th, 17th, and 18th, 19th and they told me not available for all of them. We looked at partner options on Finnair, Cathay, Qatar, Emirates and again I was told not available. This isn't just 1 bad agent either... I've talked to 7 or 8 agents at this point including supervisors and was clear that I willing to accept different dates and partner flights.

I really don't know why JAL and Amex Travel are being so dysfunctional on this... perhaps it could be related to Amex agent canceling my JFK-HND leg but Amex Travel has not admitted to that being a problem.

I'll also try calling JAL in Japan directly and seeing if helps resolve. (typically I go through Amex since that is where I booked through)
Just go to the Amex forum and you can see posts on how bad the experience is when dealing with Amex Travel on cancellations and IROPS. Essentially you are dealing with Expedia CSR who probably are not real travel agents. Give JL a call if you don’t mind the potential long wait. Have them contact Amex for you. Explain you’ve tried to resolve it with your travel agent but it’s not getting anywhere and see if they are willing to intervene.
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Old Oct 21, 22, 6:41 pm
  #5  
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Originally Posted by eltoddo22
response from Amex Travel / JAL after escalation, 10+ hours on phone, 7 agents
Originally Posted by JALPak
Just go to the Amex forum and you can see posts on how bad the experience is when dealing with Amex Travel on cancellations and IROPS. Essentially you are dealing with Expedia CSR who probably are not real travel agents. Give JL a call if you dont mind the potential long wait. Have them contact Amex for you. Explain youve tried to resolve it with your travel agent but its not getting anywhere and see if they are willing to intervene.
Yeah, this is not a JL issue, it's an Amex Travel (Expedia) issue. They are an absolute nightmare to deal with.

Hopefully calling JL directly will result in an appropriate resolution.
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Old Oct 21, 22, 7:33 pm
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Originally Posted by Kacee
Yeah, this is not a JL issue, it's an Amex Travel (Expedia) issue. They are an absolute nightmare to deal with.

Hopefully calling JL directly will result in an appropriate resolution.
Okay, yeah perhaps I have a skewed version of the truth from Amex. I'll reach out to JAL directly to see if have any better luck that way... thanks!
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Old Oct 22, 22, 8:43 am
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I had a similar experience.

Segment disappeared from reservation

The amex agents and supervisors are useless. JAL is going to tell you to deal with amex since that is where you purchased your tickets from.

In the end I took the refund and bought similarly priced tickets on ANA and get to try the Room.
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Old Oct 22, 22, 10:53 am
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I’ve quit using AMEX travel exactly for reasons such as this……any blips and it’s hours getting it fixed….or not fixed! They are a true cluster….
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Old Oct 22, 22, 12:39 pm
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Originally Posted by boss315
Ive quit using AMEX travel exactly for reasons such as thisany blips and its hours getting it fixed.or not fixed! They are a true cluster.
Booking direct whenever possible is the way to go. Even if its a few extra bucks the time it saves is worth it many times over.
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Old Oct 22, 22, 1:39 pm
  #10  
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OP: are you an Amex Platinum cardholder? If so, please call Amex Platinum Travel Services and demand an agent in the USA (usually Phoenix) with Sabre GDS access. Keep pushing until you get one. Absolutely DO NOT deal with any of the offshore customer service agents, they are not travel agents and don't have a merry-a** clue what they are doing.

if you are not a Platinum cardholder, you can call Amex Travel and demand the same, but it will be an uphill battle - eventually someone will reach out to you.

You need to tell them what you want - they must follow the published JAL rebooking policy which I've consulted in my own agency handbook and which is vague on overbooking or up-booking (into a higher fare class) due to a flight cancellation. So you can either 1) demand a date change, or 2) demand they rebook you to NRT as a re-route and use whatever business booking class is available at "I" or higher if "I" is sold out. You can also tell them you will depart from BOS or IAD if that is an available option then take the train to one of those departure points.

Have you tried to check your reservation online at the JAL website and see what rebooking options are displayed there? Try that first to see if anything comes up with your ticket issued by an agency.
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Old Oct 22, 22, 3:20 pm
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Originally Posted by bocastephen
OP: are you an Amex Platinum cardholder? If so, please call Amex Platinum Travel Services and demand an agent in the USA (usually Phoenix) with Sabre GDS access. Keep pushing until you get one. Absolutely DO NOT deal with any of the offshore customer service agents, they are not travel agents and don't have a merry-a** clue what they are doing.

if you are not a Platinum cardholder, you can call Amex Travel and demand the same, but it will be an uphill battle - eventually someone will reach out to you.

You need to tell them what you want - they must follow the published JAL rebooking policy which I've consulted in my own agency handbook and which is vague on overbooking or up-booking (into a higher fare class) due to a flight cancellation. So you can either 1) demand a date change, or 2) demand they rebook you to NRT as a re-route and use whatever business booking class is available at "I" or higher if "I" is sold out. You can also tell them you will depart from BOS or IAD if that is an available option then take the train to one of those departure points.

Have you tried to check your reservation online at the JAL website and see what rebooking options are displayed there? Try that first to see if anything comes up with your ticket issued by an agency.
Thanks. I am indeed Amex Platinum holder. I'm going to call JAL and will also try Amex Platinum line again and request agent with SABRE access. I'll report back on result.

JAL website never showed any other rebooking options on my reservation. (I think because computer didn't recognize 45 minute layover HND to NRT as invalid) At this point I can't even get reservation to pull up on JAL website. Amex Travel said that they completely removed my first leg JFK-HND and I cannot find reservation with NRT-HAN leg. I used to get it to load when I was on JL5 but now I get back nothing and I've tried many combination to get it to load on "Manage my booking" on JAL website.

I would normally book direct but I had gotten an IAP discount using Amex Platinum for this reservation. It was originally a fantastic deal at just $2100 roundtrip New York to Hanoi. We are planning a month in Vietnam and 3 weeks in Japan as stopover. I think it would cost $6000 per person to book alternative now so there's no way I want to just accept refund.

Oh here is another appalling response from a "supervisor" at Amex Travel. I responded with the Terms of Carriage and said this was unacceptable and asked case to be escalated further. But also plan on following up separately with JAL / SABRE agent.


Follow up from Amex
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Old Oct 22, 22, 4:55 pm
  #12  
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I hate to say this, but I have a sinking feeling that Amex travel is being less than transparent. I think that they: a) cancelled your entire reservation (for reasons which are unclear); b) there may be flights available with business class, but the prior fare code isn't available (which is why it is showing as so much more expensive) and now that they messed up the reservation JAL isn't feeling obligated to assist them.
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Old Oct 22, 22, 5:12 pm
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Originally Posted by sbrower
I hate to say this, but I have a sinking feeling that Amex travel is being less than transparent. I think that they: a) cancelled your entire reservation (for reasons which are unclear); b) there may be flights available with business class, but the prior fare code isn't available (which is why it is showing as so much more expensive) and now that they messed up the reservation JAL isn't feeling obligated to assist them.
Then I would add in a demand for the Amex agent with Sabre access to print off and email the entire PNR off the GDS which will show all the activity and who did what. If Amex canceled the booking in error, they will be responsible for rebooking at their expense, and can file an E+O claim with their insurance carrier after the fact.

I hope the OP reports back on how things are progressing. I use Apollo not Sabre, otherwise I would try to access the booking to see what's going on. This has someone's stink on it, just not sure if it's Amex, JAL or both.
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Old Oct 22, 22, 8:29 pm
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Update: Saga continues... pursued this through all the mentioned routes and hitting road blocks in each.

We called JAL in Japan and they of course said we need to go through Amex since flight was ticketed with them. They said that JL5 flight disappeared from our itinerary. We asked them to check who cancelled JL5 and they said Amex. JAL agent said there were other flights available to change to (but in higher fare classes than "I" class) but said that only Amex could initiate.

We called Amex Travel again and asked for an agent with SABER access. Initially we were told our itinerary was starting with NRT-HAN and missing JFK-HND leg, JL 5 flight. I asked them to check PNR details to see what happened to that flight and they said that it was cancelled by Amex. The call got super confusing at this point and she started back tracking and said that in fact I was on JL5. (JAL later contradicted this) I asked her to send me the SABER PNR details via email which she refused. She did however give me a PNR number which I am not sure how to look up. I am still not able to find reservation on JAL website. Agent once again looked for other available options and said nothing available: not economy, not business, not first. Shortly after this the call dropped and they didn't call back.

I also asked supervisor to escalate and asked her as well for SABER PNR details. She said it would be 10 days to hear back from higher up supervisor and ignored my request for PNR details.

I'm going to keep pushing issue with Amex and try and get agent to connect with JAL agent but losing patience.


Last edited by eltoddo22; Oct 22, 22 at 9:10 pm Reason: typo
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Old Oct 22, 22, 8:40 pm
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Brutal experience. And, truly, the massive downside of IAP offering.
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