JALPak

They can always apply for it too. I just don't see how US DOT will grant HND-LAX to all of them and having 1x LAX-HND will give AA a disadvantage. And I definitely don't want a 2nd daily LAX-HND on AA if it means JL not starting HND-LAX.

I also speculated JL to apply for HND-LAS...now with AA going for it then we probably won't see JL bringing back JL25 from LAS.

JALOO5-Flyer

I really think AA just ran out of routes to apply for. LAS over ORD (and PHL PHX etc AA hubs) sounds very surprising. And JAL is definitely more suitable for this route especially with E12 788.

Also AA's order of preference: DFW, 2nd LAX, 2nd DFW, LAS. Maybe AA never thinks the LAS flight will be approved?

JALPak

jgchiker

US carriers applied for 17 so far.
I guess JAL and ANA need to have 10 meetings and then get 50 seals.

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CPH-Flyer

19 in the US, 6 from Delta, 6 from United, 4 from AA and 3 from Hawaiian

I can't remember the Japanese deadline for application, but it may very likely be different than the US. Each side (Japan/US) has the carriers applying for 12 slots. The Japanese and US carriers are not in competition for for slots, only intra US competition and intra Japan competition.

jgchiker

They still need to evaluate where the competition will come from. Then get 50 seals.

FireEmblemPride

That redeye LAX-HND application is surprising since those are supposed to be subject to different slot allocations. Only two redeye slots exist, which are taken by NH and HA. It's a bit surprising the two sides haven't negotiated for more since redeyes work well for HND-HNL/KOA.

JALPak

joejones

The Japanese process is very different, and my understanding is that the carriers are simply allocated slots with some flexibility to decide how they are used.

In 2016, when the first round of HND-US daytime slot allocations took place, it took about two months from the bilateral agreement (late February) until the Japanese carriers got their slot allocations (late April). ANA's HND-JFK/ORD plans came out in the press weeks later (mid-May), but JAL didn't immediately say what it would do with its extra slot. It took about five months from the bilateral agreement until DOT announced the route awards on the US side (July), and JAL's decision to operate HND-JFK finally became known in October.

FireEmblemPride

That may be so, but as far as I know, the Japanese government must approve (or build into the bilateral slot agreement) the right for airlines to mix daytime and nighttime slots. I remember reading this being a specific condition with Indonesia's allocations. GA held 2 slots, one for each time of day, but dedicated both CGK and DPS either a daytime outbound and nighttime inbound or vice versa. This needed to be built into the bilateral and not something the airline could just do on its own.

But in Indonesia's case, an evening slot was available to GA anyway. In the US case, AA is asking for a slot that's not technically subject to the current bilateral allocation... theoretically, AA would need to swap the half of the slot with HA and get permission from the Japanese government.

If I'm misremembering something, please feel free to correct me.

CPH-Flyer

Since all of these slots came about by the US Airforce releasing some of the control of their airspace around Tokyo, I would imagine that the US side has used that to get more favourable terms. First example, out of the 48 new slots created by this, 2*12 are for US bound traffic. I am sure there may be some other little things in favour of the US....

JALPak

Ultimately it's still HND that controls the timing of these slots. Airlines can propose whatever they want but they won't get the slot pairs if there's none available for their proposed flight times.

joejones

You don't have to imagine; this has already been reported in the press. "Japan's move to earmark half of new slots at Haneda Airport to flights serving U.S. cities is tied to the American military agreeing to open up its airspace around Tokyo, more so than the government's efforts to encourage inbound tourism."

rustykettel

AA is getting LAX and one DFW.

https://www.regulations.gov/contentS...ontentType=pdf

I'm going with HND-ORD on JAL.

JALPak

Damn it AA is only getting 2 while UA is getting 4. Even counting HA's pair, JL JV will only have 3 vs NH's 4