Last edit by: JALPak
Japan has tentatively granted JL 11.5 slot pairs and NH 13.5 slot pairs: https://r.nikkei.com/article/DGXMZO48713010Z10C19A8MM8000
Official allocation: http://www.mlit.go.jp/report/press/c.../001305161.pdf
US: JL 6 NH 6
China: JL 2 NH 2
Russia: JL 1 NH 1
Australia: JL1 NH 1
India: JL 0.5 NH 0.5 (flight will use day time + night time pair)
Italy: NH 1
Turkey: NH 1
Finland: JL 1
Scandinavia: NH 1
Official allocation: http://www.mlit.go.jp/report/press/c.../001305161.pdf
US: JL 6 NH 6
China: JL 2 NH 2
Russia: JL 1 NH 1
Australia: JL1 NH 1
India: JL 0.5 NH 0.5 (flight will use day time + night time pair)
Italy: NH 1
Turkey: NH 1
Finland: JL 1
Scandinavia: NH 1
12 additional HND-US daytime slots are up for grab
#1
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12 additional HND-US daytime slots are up for grab
looks like US and Japan has tentatively agreed to grant 12 additional day-time slots to US carriers. It would be safe to assume there will be 12 for Japanese carriers as well. Hopefully it will be at least an even split this time between JL and the whining baby. We should know pretty soon though because they need to decide on schedule by Oct 2019.
Let the new JL HND route speculation begin I guess it would be safe to assume ORD, HNL, and DFW to be moved to HND?
https://airlineinfo.com/ostpdf103/476.pdf
Let the new JL HND route speculation begin I guess it would be safe to assume ORD, HNL, and DFW to be moved to HND?
https://airlineinfo.com/ostpdf103/476.pdf
Last edited by JALPak; Feb 7, 2019 at 10:00 pm
#2
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Ok. SEA, DFW or ORD (with the other switched by AA), and new service to MIA or PHX.
Total lark: I think RDU has potential given the growing Japanese ties there but lacks the feed that CLT would have, which makes both weaker as candidates.
Total lark: I think RDU has potential given the growing Japanese ties there but lacks the feed that CLT would have, which makes both weaker as candidates.
#3
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My assumption is that these slots are only used for competitive advantage, so four on each side would probably be used for the routes with the toughest competition between the JVs:
4x JL = LAX, ORD, SEA, HNL
4x NH = SFO, LAX, SEA, HNL
After that it's anyone's guess. I think fortress routes like DFW-NRT and IAD-NRT (only served by one of the JVs) would stay at NRT unless the other JV tries to start them out of HND, which seems like a distinct possibility.
JAL might try to move multiple HNL flights to HND as a means of competing with the ANA A380 service.
A new JAL route to MIA or PHX would most likely be out of NRT since they wouldn't be competing with anyone who runs it nonstop out of HND.
4x JL = LAX, ORD, SEA, HNL
4x NH = SFO, LAX, SEA, HNL
After that it's anyone's guess. I think fortress routes like DFW-NRT and IAD-NRT (only served by one of the JVs) would stay at NRT unless the other JV tries to start them out of HND, which seems like a distinct possibility.
JAL might try to move multiple HNL flights to HND as a means of competing with the ANA A380 service.
A new JAL route to MIA or PHX would most likely be out of NRT since they wouldn't be competing with anyone who runs it nonstop out of HND.
#4
After that it's anyone's guess. I think fortress routes like DFW-NRT and IAD-NRT (only served by one of the JVs) would stay at NRT unless the other JV tries to start them out of HND, which seems like a distinct possibility.
JAL might try to move multiple HNL flights to HND as a means of competing with the ANA A380 service.
A new JAL route to MIA or PHX would most likely be out of NRT since they wouldn't be competing with anyone who runs it nonstop out of HND.
JAL might try to move multiple HNL flights to HND as a means of competing with the ANA A380 service.
A new JAL route to MIA or PHX would most likely be out of NRT since they wouldn't be competing with anyone who runs it nonstop out of HND.
#5
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I would love to see JAL do HND-IAD with a 788 just to put an ax in the ridiculous fares that NH/UA charge in this market, and pressure UA to upgrade its premium product (they are still using 2-4-2 C class on this route). There's probably a business case for it: JAL used to have a sales office in DC years ago, and there is a massive Japanese community in the area between the embassy, the universities, the various corporate offices and NIH. All that said, I think the odds of it happening are slim.
Another issue, suggested by JALPak in his first post above, is whether ANA and JAL get equal numbers of slots. I recall that someone in an official capacity previously suggested that the imbalance caused by JAL's bankruptcy has been fully corrected by the existing lopsided slot awards to ANA at HND, but that doesn't mean the government will stop shafting JAL. ANA could get enough slots to move all of its US routes over to HND (using their new international facilities at HND T2) while JAL only gets enough to move a handful of premium ones.
Seems almost certain that AA will request and get DFW-HND, so the JV will at least have that route.
Another issue, suggested by JALPak in his first post above, is whether ANA and JAL get equal numbers of slots. I recall that someone in an official capacity previously suggested that the imbalance caused by JAL's bankruptcy has been fully corrected by the existing lopsided slot awards to ANA at HND, but that doesn't mean the government will stop shafting JAL. ANA could get enough slots to move all of its US routes over to HND (using their new international facilities at HND T2) while JAL only gets enough to move a handful of premium ones.
Seems almost certain that AA will request and get DFW-HND, so the JV will at least have that route.
#6
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I note that Delta has already been whining about the proceedings. I guess we could see more blockage from them, like they did before.
Unless ANA's international facilities takes the main part of the NH flights over there, the international terminal in Haneda is well on the way to become unattractive due to over crowding. The facilities does not keep up with passenger growth.
Unless ANA's international facilities takes the main part of the NH flights over there, the international terminal in Haneda is well on the way to become unattractive due to over crowding. The facilities does not keep up with passenger growth.
#7
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I would love to see JAL do HND-IAD with a 788 just to put an ax in the ridiculous fares that NH/UA charge in this market, and pressure UA to upgrade its premium product (they are still using 2-4-2 C class on this route). There's probably a business case for it: JAL used to have a sales office in DC years ago, and there is a massive Japanese community in the area between the embassy, the universities, the various corporate offices and NIH. All that said, I think the odds of it happening are slim.
Another issue, suggested by JALPak in his first post above, is whether ANA and JAL get equal numbers of slots. I recall that someone in an official capacity previously suggested that the imbalance caused by JAL's bankruptcy has been fully corrected by the existing lopsided slot awards to ANA at HND, but that doesn't mean the government will stop shafting JAL. ANA could get enough slots to move all of its US routes over to HND (using their new international facilities at HND T2) while JAL only gets enough to move a handful of premium ones.
Seems almost certain that AA will request and get DFW-HND, so the JV will at least have that route.
Another issue, suggested by JALPak in his first post above, is whether ANA and JAL get equal numbers of slots. I recall that someone in an official capacity previously suggested that the imbalance caused by JAL's bankruptcy has been fully corrected by the existing lopsided slot awards to ANA at HND, but that doesn't mean the government will stop shafting JAL. ANA could get enough slots to move all of its US routes over to HND (using their new international facilities at HND T2) while JAL only gets enough to move a handful of premium ones.
Seems almost certain that AA will request and get DFW-HND, so the JV will at least have that route.
#8
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I note that Delta has already been whining about the proceedings. I guess we could see more blockage from them, like they did before.
Unless ANA's international facilities takes the main part of the NH flights over there, the international terminal in Haneda is well on the way to become unattractive due to over crowding. The facilities does not keep up with passenger growth.
Unless ANA's international facilities takes the main part of the NH flights over there, the international terminal in Haneda is well on the way to become unattractive due to over crowding. The facilities does not keep up with passenger growth.
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Not just that, international connection options are rather limited for JL at HND. Hopefully next round of allocation will fix that. But then what's left for NRT then? I can't imagine JL adding more regional flights at HND and maintain the current frequency at NRT. They don't have enough planes or demand.
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Apparently the US military has agreed to open airspace to Haneda operations, meaning up to another 60,000 flights a year becomes possible in Haneda I could imagine the slots we are talking about here is part of the deal. So a lot of traffic could be moved to Haneda It would probably leave LCCs and airlines with no Haneda slots in Narita.
Airlines with no Haneda slots? That's JAL
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Then partner airlines will get no connection options at NRT LOL E.g. AA and HA may not be able to move all flights to HND. For O/D traffic and Japan domestic connections, people already prefer HND over NRT. No idea who will fly into NRT when there's little to no connection options.
Airlines with no Haneda slots? That's JAL
Airlines with no Haneda slots? That's JAL
I was more thinking Swiss, Austrian, Sri Lanka Air India, and quite a few more that has been left out in the cold so far.
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I note that Delta has already been whining about the proceedings. I guess we could see more blockage from them, like they did before.
Unless ANA's international facilities takes the main part of the NH flights over there, the international terminal in Haneda is well on the way to become unattractive due to over crowding. The facilities does not keep up with passenger growth.
Unless ANA's international facilities takes the main part of the NH flights over there, the international terminal in Haneda is well on the way to become unattractive due to over crowding. The facilities does not keep up with passenger growth.
#13
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Daytime flight slots at Haneda are slated to rise to 99,000 a year in 2020 from the current 60,000 under an agreement to let commercial flights pass through airspace controlled by the U.S. Yokota Air Base. This translates to an increase of about 50 flights per day, and half of that added capacity will be divided between Japanese and American carriers.
so only 50 flights of all of them are for int’l flights?
#14
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https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Int...s-to-US-routes
so only 50 flights of all of them are for int’l flights?
ETA: Found an interesting document on HND and NRT current slots, expansion plans, and proposed flight route changes. 357,000 annual slots at HND for domestic flights currently.
http://www.schedule-coordination.jp/...an_airport.pdf
60M tourists by 2030!
Last edited by rustykettel; Feb 8, 2019 at 11:09 pm