Does my ticket violate cabotage rules? [HNL-KOA-NRT//KIX-HNL]
Mar 7, 2018, 9:05 am
#2
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: PHX
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Posts: 929
Nope. If it violated cabotage you wouldn't be able to buy it.
Cabotage rules are more for the airline to worry about when selling tickets. It's not for a passenger to worry about when buying a ticket.
Cabotage rules are more for the airline to worry about when selling tickets. It's not for a passenger to worry about when buying a ticket.
Mar 7, 2018, 1:32 pm
#5
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Economy, mostly :(
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 7,801
Cabotage generally refers to an airline's right to operate domestic flights in a third country, as far as I understand it, but am no expert. Either way in this case you're flying a domestic flight within the US on a US airline, thereafter an international flight from the US to Japan on a Japanese airline, followed by another domestic flight within Japan on a Japanese airline. There is no cabotage.
Mar 7, 2018, 4:27 pm
#6
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
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Posts: 5,678
Generally true but there have been instances where tickets could be purchased that violated cabotage, so it's not an absolute guarantee. In any case though, there isn't any cabotage here based on the OP's information.
Mar 7, 2018, 9:15 pm
#7
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend, Moderator, Information Desk, Ambassador, Alaska Airlines
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Welcome to Flyertalk @yuheng.
Please follow the redirect as we send this to the JL forum, as this is where your concern arises.
~beckoa, co-moderator Information Desk
Please follow the redirect as we send this to the JL forum, as this is where your concern arises.
~beckoa, co-moderator Information Desk
Mar 8, 2018, 3:22 am
#8
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Tokyo
Programs: Marriott Plat, HH G,Hyatt E,*A Gold, OW Emerald.
Posts: 3,023
Is this a booking with less than 24 hours in Japan?
or a legal return ticket with more than 24 hours in Japan?
if the former, negotiate to cancel for free otherwise JAL will deny you boarding at kona.
if the latter, call JAL to enquire about the odd message.
or a legal return ticket with more than 24 hours in Japan?
if the former, negotiate to cancel for free otherwise JAL will deny you boarding at kona.
if the latter, call JAL to enquire about the odd message.
Mar 8, 2018, 7:30 am
#9
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York, NY
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Posts: 6,776
I'm pretty sure there is more than 24 hours between arriving on March 27th (departing HNL on March 26th) & departing on April 4th.
Mar 9, 2018, 10:05 am
#11
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: BOS
Programs: JMB, AMC
Posts: 173
Seems like JAL's website could be oversensitive to these kinds of bookings.
I was referred to an article saying the US DOT fined Asiana for cabotage violations on Guam/Saipan-Seoul-US Mainland routes in another thread, so I'm guessing the system avoids anything that could be remotely considered a violation based on origin/stopover/destination cities, regardless of actual travel dates.
OP is flying Honolulu-Kona-Tokyo (overland?) Osaka-Honolulu, so JAL carrying the OP from Kona to Honolulu via Japan is potentially a violation going by the Asiana incident.
The "modified sixth freedom" refers to the right to carry passengers between two points in country A through a hub in country B; for instance, a Boston-Toronto-Seattle itinerary. Such services are currently considered to constitute cabotage and are not permitted.
I was referred to an article saying the US DOT fined Asiana for cabotage violations on Guam/Saipan-Seoul-US Mainland routes in another thread, so I'm guessing the system avoids anything that could be remotely considered a violation based on origin/stopover/destination cities, regardless of actual travel dates.
Cabotage generally refers to an airline's right to operate domestic flights in a third country, as far as I understand it, but am no expert. Either way in this case you're flying a domestic flight within the US on a US airline, thereafter an international flight from the US to Japan on a Japanese airline, followed by another domestic flight within Japan on a Japanese airline. There is no cabotage.
The "modified sixth freedom" refers to the right to carry passengers between two points in country A through a hub in country B; for instance, a Boston-Toronto-Seattle itinerary. Such services are currently considered to constitute cabotage and are not permitted.
Mar 9, 2018, 10:21 am
#12
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Economy, mostly :(
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 7,801
Seems like JAL's website could be oversensitive to these kinds of bookings.
I was referred to an article saying the US DOT fined Asiana for cabotage violations on Guam/Saipan-Seoul-US Mainland routes in another thread, so I'm guessing the system avoids anything that could be remotely considered a violation based on origin/stopover/destination cities, regardless of actual travel dates.
OP is flying Honolulu-Kona-Tokyo (overland?) Osaka-Honolulu, so JAL carrying the OP from Kona to Honolulu via Japan is potentially a violation going by the Asiana incident.
The "modified sixth freedom" refers to the right to carry passengers between two points in country A through a hub in country B; for instance, a Boston-Toronto-Seattle itinerary. Such services are currently considered to constitute cabotage and are not permitted.
I was referred to an article saying the US DOT fined Asiana for cabotage violations on Guam/Saipan-Seoul-US Mainland routes in another thread, so I'm guessing the system avoids anything that could be remotely considered a violation based on origin/stopover/destination cities, regardless of actual travel dates.
OP is flying Honolulu-Kona-Tokyo (overland?) Osaka-Honolulu, so JAL carrying the OP from Kona to Honolulu via Japan is potentially a violation going by the Asiana incident.
The "modified sixth freedom" refers to the right to carry passengers between two points in country A through a hub in country B; for instance, a Boston-Toronto-Seattle itinerary. Such services are currently considered to constitute cabotage and are not permitted.
Mar 9, 2018, 10:32 am
#13
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Posts: 50,262
In this case, it is unclear that JL has identified a US DOT issue. Perhaps it is Japan or Korea? Particularly if the third-party opaque website used some odd hidden-city ticketing to create a cheap fare.
Best to call JL immediately and ask what the specific problem is. Once you know what the issue is, then please post and let us know.
Mar 9, 2018, 10:58 am
#14
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: BOS
Programs: JMB, AMC
Posts: 173
I tried to get a quote on a HNL-NRT-BOS itinerary with 2 weeks in Japan and the website wouldn't let me, citing cabotage.
Mar 9, 2018, 3:32 pm
#15
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
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Posts: 50,262
Who knows how the ticket vendor actually ticketed this.
Call JL, find out what the problem is and then have the TA fix it if it is a problem. If not, ask JL to correct the note.
Ordinarily I would suggest starting with the TA, but in this case it is better to be armed with an understanding of the problem.
Call JL, find out what the problem is and then have the TA fix it if it is a problem. If not, ask JL to correct the note.
Ordinarily I would suggest starting with the TA, but in this case it is better to be armed with an understanding of the problem.
Last edited by Often1; Mar 10, 2018 at 9:35 am
